Countercult ministries/Watchman Fellowship/Section 8 - Revision history

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	The author claims that Doctrine and Covenants 37:1, which instructs Joseph to stop translating until he goes to Ohio, is a "self-fulfilling prophecy."		The author claims that Doctrine and Covenants 37:1, which instructs Joseph to stop translating until he goes to Ohio, is a "self-fulfilling prophecy."
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	Two unfulfilled “close-dated unconditional prophecies” preserved in Doctrine and Covenants Section 84:3-5 (construction of a temple in MO) and Section 114 (David Patten serving a mission to all the world) prove that Joseph Smith was a false prophet.		Two unfulfilled “close-dated unconditional prophecies” preserved in Doctrine and Covenants Section 84:3-5 (construction of a temple in MO) and Section 114 (David Patten serving a mission to all the world) prove that Joseph Smith was a false prophet.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#{{s\|\|DC\|114\|}}		#{{s\|\|D&C\|114\|}}
	*''History of the Church'', Vol. 3, p. 171.		*''History of the Church'', Vol. 3, p. 171.
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	Latter-day Saints claim that the truthfulness of "the LDS Church" and Joseph Smith can be tested using the promise in Moroni 10:4. This test is claimed to be too "subjective" to be valid.		Latter-day Saints claim that the truthfulness of "the LDS Church" and Joseph Smith can be tested using the promise in Moroni 10:4. This test is claimed to be too "subjective" to be valid.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{s\|\|Moroni\|10\|4}}		#{{s\|\|Moroni\|10\|4}}
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	{{propaganda\|How can the authors assume that this test is too "subjective" to be valid?		{{propaganda\|How can the authors assume that this test is too "subjective" to be valid?
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	The true test of a prophet is that all his prophecies come to pass (Deut. 18:20-22), and “…the Bible never recommends prayer as a way of discerning true and false prophets”.		The true test of a prophet is that all his prophecies come to pass (Deut. 18:20-22), and “…the Bible never recommends prayer as a way of discerning true and false prophets”.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{s\|\|Deuteronomy\|18\|20-22}}		#{{s\|\|Deuteronomy\|18\|20-22}}
	}}		}}
	{{misinformation\|Many LDS critics attempt to condemn Joseph Smith using a standard that would, if applied to Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Nathan, an angel of God, and Jonah, also condemn the Old Testament as a fraud.}}		{{misinformation\|Many LDS critics attempt to condemn Joseph Smith using a standard that would, if applied to Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Nathan, an angel of God, and Jonah, also condemn the Old Testament as a fraud.}}
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	The author claims that Doctrine and Covenants 37:1, which instructs Joseph to stop translating until he goes to Ohio, is a "self-fulfilling prophecy."		The author claims that Doctrine and Covenants 37:1, which instructs Joseph to stop translating until he goes to Ohio, is a "self-fulfilling prophecy."
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	Two unfulfilled “close-dated unconditional prophecies” preserved in Doctrine and Covenants Section 84:3-5 (construction of a temple in MO) and Section 114 (David Patten serving a mission to all the world) prove that Joseph Smith was a false prophet.		Two unfulfilled “close-dated unconditional prophecies” preserved in Doctrine and Covenants Section 84:3-5 (construction of a temple in MO) and Section 114 (David Patten serving a mission to all the world) prove that Joseph Smith was a false prophet.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{s\|\|DC\|114\|}}		#{{s\|\|DC\|114\|}}
	*''History of the Church'', Vol. 3, p. 171.		*''History of the Church'', Vol. 3, p. 171.
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	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Latter-day Saints claim that the truthfulness of "the LDS Church" and Joseph Smith can be tested using the promise in Moroni 10:4. This test is claimed to be too "subjective" to be valid.		Latter-day Saints claim that the truthfulness of "the LDS Church" and Joseph Smith can be tested using the promise in Moroni 10:4. This test is claimed to be too "subjective" to be valid.
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{s\|\|Moroni\|10\|4}}		#*{{s\|\|Moroni\|10\|4}}
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	{{propaganda\|How can the authors assume that this test is too "subjective" to be valid?		{{propaganda\|How can the authors assume that this test is too "subjective" to be valid?
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	The true test of a prophet is that all his prophecies come to pass (Deut. 18:20-22), and “…the Bible never recommends prayer as a way of discerning true and false prophets”.		The true test of a prophet is that all his prophecies come to pass (Deut. 18:20-22), and “…the Bible never recommends prayer as a way of discerning true and false prophets”.
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{s\|\|Deuteronomy\|18\|20-22}}		#*{{s\|\|Deuteronomy\|18\|20-22}}
	}}		}}
	{{misinformation\|Many LDS critics attempt to condemn Joseph Smith using a standard that would, if applied to Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Nathan, an angel of God, and Jonah, also condemn the Old Testament as a fraud.}}		{{misinformation\|Many LDS critics attempt to condemn Joseph Smith using a standard that would, if applied to Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Nathan, an angel of God, and Jonah, also condemn the Old Testament as a fraud.}}
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	Joseph Smith predicted in 1835 that, "The coming of the Lord, which was nigh - even fifty-six years should wind up the scene." Since that didn’t happen by 1891, it suggests Joseph may have been a false prophet.		Joseph Smith predicted in 1835 that, "The coming of the Lord, which was nigh - even fifty-six years should wind up the scene." Since that didn’t happen by 1891, it suggests Joseph may have been a false prophet.
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	''History of the Church'', Vol. 2 p. 182		#''History of the Church'', Vol. 2 p. 182
	}}		}}
	{{misinformation\|The authors do not note that Joseph wasn't really sure what this meant.}}		{{misinformation\|The authors do not note that Joseph wasn't really sure what this meant.}}
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	The author claims that Doctrine and Covenants 37:1, which instructs Joseph to stop translating until he goes to Ohio, is a "self-fulfilling prophecy."		The author claims that Doctrine and Covenants 37:1, which instructs Joseph to stop translating until he goes to Ohio, is a "self-fulfilling prophecy."
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
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	Two unfulfilled “close-dated unconditional prophecies” preserved in Doctrine and Covenants Section 84:3-5 (construction of a temple in MO) and Section 114 (David Patten serving a mission to all the world) prove that Joseph Smith was a false prophet.		Two unfulfilled “close-dated unconditional prophecies” preserved in Doctrine and Covenants Section 84:3-5 (construction of a temple in MO) and Section 114 (David Patten serving a mission to all the world) prove that Joseph Smith was a false prophet.
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{s\|\|DC\|114\|}}		#*{{s\|\|DC\|114\|}}
	*''History of the Church'', Vol. 3, p. 171.		*''History of the Church'', Vol. 3, p. 171.
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RogerNicholson at 03:05, 4 October 2017

2017-10-04T03:05:54Z

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	{{H2		{{H2
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	\|H=Response to claims in "Joseph Smith and the Biblical Test of a Prophet"		\|H=Response to claims in "Joseph Smith and the Biblical Test of a Prophet" by Watchman Fellowship
	\|S=		\|S=
	\|L1=		\|L1=Response to claim: Latter-day Saints claim that the truthfulness of "the LDS Church" and Joseph Smith can be tested using the promise in Moroni 10:4. This test is claimed to be too "subjective" to be valid
			\|L2=Response to claim: The true test of a prophet is that all his prophecies come to pass (Deut. 18:20-22), and “…the Bible never recommends prayer as a way of discerning true and false prophets”
			\|L3=Response to claim: Joseph Smith predicted in 1835 that, "The coming of the Lord, which was nigh - even fifty-six years should wind up the scene"
			\|L4=Response to claim: The author claims that Doctrine and Covenants 37:1, which instructs Joseph to stop translating until he goes to Ohio, is a "self-fulfilling prophecy"
			\|L5=Response to claim: Two unfulfilled “close-dated unconditional prophecies” preserved in Doctrine and Covenants Section 84:3-5 (construction of a temple in MO) and Section 114 (David Patten serving a mission to all the world) prove that Joseph Smith was a false prophet
	}}		}}
	</onlyinclude>		</onlyinclude>
	~~==Quick Navigation==~~
	*[[Countercult ministries/Watchman Fellowship/Section 8#Response to claim: Latter-day Saints claim that the truthfulness of "the LDS Church" and Joseph Smith can be tested using the promise in Moroni 10:4. This test is claimed to be too "subjective" to be valid\|Response to claim: Latter-day Saints claim that the truthfulness of "the LDS Church" and Joseph Smith can be tested using the promise in Moroni 10:4. This test is claimed to be too "subjective" to be valid]]
	*[[Countercult ministries/Watchman Fellowship/Section 8#Response to claim: The true test of a prophet is that all his prophecies come to pass (Deut. 18:20-22), and “…the Bible never recommends prayer as a way of discerning true and false prophets”\|Response to claim: The true test of a prophet is that all his prophecies come to pass (Deut. 18:20-22), and “…the Bible never recommends prayer as a way of discerning true and false prophets”]]
	*[[Countercult ministries/Watchman Fellowship/Section 8#Response to claim: Joseph Smith predicted in 1835 that, "The coming of the Lord, which was nigh - even fifty-six years should wind up the scene"\|Response to claim: Joseph Smith predicted in 1835 that, "The coming of the Lord, which was nigh - even fifty-six years should wind up the scene"]]
	*[[Countercult ministries/Watchman Fellowship/Section 8#Response to claim: The author claims that Doctrine and Covenants 37:1, which instructs Joseph to stop translating until he goes to Ohio, is a "self-fulfilling prophecy"\|Response to claim: The author claims that Doctrine and Covenants 37:1, which instructs Joseph to stop translating until he goes to Ohio, is a "self-fulfilling prophecy"]]
	*[[Countercult ministries/Watchman Fellowship/Section 8#Response to claim: Two unfulfilled “close-dated unconditional prophecies” preserved in Doctrine and Covenants Section 84:3-5 (construction of a temple in MO) and Section 114 (David Patten serving a mission to all the world) prove that Joseph Smith was a false prophet\|Response to claim: Two unfulfilled “close-dated unconditional prophecies” preserved in Doctrine and Covenants Section 84:3-5 (construction of a temple in MO) and Section 114 (David Patten serving a mission to all the world) prove that Joseph Smith was a false prophet]]
	~~{{parabreak}}~~
	==Response to claim: Latter-day Saints claim that the truthfulness of "the LDS Church" and Joseph Smith can be tested using the promise in Moroni 10:4. This test is claimed to be too "subjective" to be valid==		==Response to claim: Latter-day Saints claim that the truthfulness of "the LDS Church" and Joseph Smith can be tested using the promise in Moroni 10:4. This test is claimed to be too "subjective" to be valid==
	{{IndexClaimItemShort		{{IndexClaimItemShort

RogerNicholson at 03:05, 4 October 2017

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	==Quick Navigation==		==Quick Navigation==
	*[[Countercult ministries/Watchman Fellowship/Section 8#Response to claim: Latter-day Saints claim that the truthfulness of "the LDS Church" and Joseph Smith can be tested using the promise in Moroni 10:4. This test is claimed to be too "subjective" to be valid\|Response to claim: Latter-day Saints claim that the truthfulness of "the LDS Church" and Joseph Smith can be tested using the promise in Moroni 10:4. This test is claimed to be too "subjective" to be valid]]		*[[Countercult ministries/Watchman Fellowship/Section 8#Response to claim: Latter-day Saints claim that the truthfulness of "the LDS Church" and Joseph Smith can be tested using the promise in Moroni 10:4. This test is claimed to be too "subjective" to be valid\|Response to claim: Latter-day Saints claim that the truthfulness of "the LDS Church" and Joseph Smith can be tested using the promise in Moroni 10:4. This test is claimed to be too "subjective" to be valid]]
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	{{:Question: Why did Joseph Smith say that David Patten would serve a mission when he was killed only six months later?}}		{{:Question: Why did Joseph Smith say that David Patten would serve a mission when he was killed only six months later?}}

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	*{{s\|\|Deuteronomy\|18\|20-22}}		*{{s\|\|Deuteronomy\|18\|20-22}}
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	{{misinformation\|Many LDS critics attempt to condemn Joseph Smith using a standard that would, if applied to Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Nathan, an angel of God, and Jonah, also condemn the Old Testament as a fraud.		{{misinformation\|Many LDS critics attempt to condemn Joseph Smith using a standard that would, if applied to Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Nathan, an angel of God, and Jonah, also condemn the Old Testament as a fraud.}}
	}}		}}
	{{:Question: Does Joseph Smith fail the "prophetic test" found in Deuteronomy 18?}}		{{:Question: Does Joseph Smith fail the "prophetic test" found in Deuteronomy 18?}}
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	''History of the Church'', Vol. 2 p. 182		''History of the Church'', Vol. 2 p. 182
	}}		}}
	{{misinformation\|The authors do not note that Joseph wasn't really sure what this meant.		{{misinformation\|The authors do not note that Joseph wasn't really sure what this meant.}}
	}}		}}
	{{:Question: Did Joseph Smith prophesy that Jesus Christ would return in 1890?}}		{{:Question: Did Joseph Smith prophesy that Jesus Christ would return in 1890?}}
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	D&C 37:1 states: "Behold, I say unto you that it is not expedient in me that ye should translate any more until ye shall go to the Ohio, and this because of the enemy and for your sakes." This isn't a ''prophecy'' at all! It is simply instruction for Joseph to stop translating until he goes to Ohio. The authors appear to wish to portray every utterance that Joseph attributed to the Lord as a "prophecy."		D&C 37:1 states: "Behold, I say unto you that it is not expedient in me that ye should translate any more until ye shall go to the Ohio, and this because of the enemy and for your sakes." This isn't a ''prophecy'' at all! It is simply instruction for Joseph to stop translating until he goes to Ohio. The authors appear to wish to portray every utterance that Joseph attributed to the Lord as a "prophecy."
	}}		}}
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	*''History of the Church'', Vol. 3, p. 171.		*''History of the Church'', Vol. 3, p. 171.
	}}		}}
	{{misinformation\|		{{misinformation\|}}
	}}		}}
	{{:Question: Was Joseph Smith's prophecy that the Independence, Missouri temple "shall be reared in this generation" a failed prophecy?}}		{{:Question: Was Joseph Smith's prophecy that the Independence, Missouri temple "shall be reared in this generation" a failed prophecy?}}

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RogerNicholson at 01:02, 10 June 2017

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	\|~~title~~=Watchman Fellowship		\|<=[[../Section 7\|Claims made in "False Prophecy in the Doctrine and Covenants"]]
	\|~~author~~=James Walker		\|>=[[../Section 9\|Claims made in "The Bible: 1,002 - Book of Mormon: Zero"]]
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	~~\|section=[[../\|Index]], Claims in "Joseph Smith and the Biblical Test of a Prophet"~~
	~~\|previous~~=[[../Section 7\|Claims made in "False Prophecy in the Doctrine and Covenants"]]
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Countercult ministries/Watchman Fellowship/Section 8 - Revision history

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RogerNicholson at 03:05, 4 October 2017

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RogerNicholson at 01:02, 10 June 2017

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