Book of Mormon/Geography/Models/Hemispheric/Goble-May 2002 - Revision history

GregSmith: /* top */Bot replace {{FairMormon}} with {{Main Page}} and remove extra lines around {{Header}}

2024-04-13T20:04:51Z

top: Bot replace {{FairMormon}} with {{Main Page}} and remove extra lines around {{Header}}

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:04, 13 April 2024
Line 1:		Line 1:
	{{~~FairMormon~~}}		{{Main Page}}
	{{BoMGeoTableStart}}		{{BoMGeoTableStart}}
	{{BoMGeo:Goble and May 2002_RAW}}		{{BoMGeo:Goble and May 2002_RAW}}

FairMormonBot: Bot: Automated text replacement (-== ==\n +)

2017-06-30T15:08:40Z

Bot: Automated text replacement (-== ==\n +)

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:08, 30 June 2017
Line 37:		Line 37:
	This can be compared with The FIRM Foundation's identical idea.<ref>"The Book of Mormon index indicates the Sidon River flows north into a sea, is this correct?," FAQ, ''bookofmormonevidence.org'' (accessed 9 April 2009) {{link\|url=http://www.bookofmormonevidence.org/FAQ.php}}</ref>		This can be compared with The FIRM Foundation's identical idea.<ref>"The Book of Mormon index indicates the Sidon River flows north into a sea, is this correct?," FAQ, ''bookofmormonevidence.org'' (accessed 9 April 2009) {{link\|url=http://www.bookofmormonevidence.org/FAQ.php}}</ref>

	~~== ==~~
	{{Endnotes label}}		{{Endnotes label}}
	<references />		<references />

FairMormonBot: Bot: Automated text replacement (-{{Articles(.*)}} +)

2017-06-08T23:40:37Z

Bot: Automated text replacement (-{{Articles(.*)}} +)

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:40, 8 June 2017
Line 1:		Line 1:
	{{FairMormon}} ~~{{Articles Header 1}} {{Articles Header 2}} {{Articles Header 3}} {{Articles Header 4}} {{Articles Header 5}} {{Articles Header 6}} {{Articles Header 7}} {{Articles Header 8}} {{Articles Header 9}}~~		{{FairMormon}}
	{{BoMGeoTableStart}}		{{BoMGeoTableStart}}
	{{BoMGeo:Goble and May 2002_RAW}}		{{BoMGeo:Goble and May 2002_RAW}}
Line 40:		Line 40:
	{{Endnotes label}}		{{Endnotes label}}
	<references />		<references />

	{{Articles Footer 1}} {{Articles Footer 2}} {{Articles Footer 3}} {{Articles Footer 4}} {{Articles Footer 5}} {{Articles Footer 6}} {{Articles Footer 7}} {{Articles Footer 8}} {{Articles Footer 9}} {{Articles Footer 10}}

FairMormonBot: Bot: Automated text replacement (-{{Articles FAIR copyright}} +{{FairMormon}})

2017-06-08T13:18:20Z

Bot: Automated text replacement (-{{Articles FAIR copyright}} +{{FairMormon}})

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:18, 8 June 2017
Line 1:		Line 1:
	{{~~Articles FAIR copyright~~}} {{Articles Header 1}} {{Articles Header 2}} {{Articles Header 3}} {{Articles Header 4}} {{Articles Header 5}} {{Articles Header 6}} {{Articles Header 7}} {{Articles Header 8}} {{Articles Header 9}}		{{FairMormon}} {{Articles Header 1}} {{Articles Header 2}} {{Articles Header 3}} {{Articles Header 4}} {{Articles Header 5}} {{Articles Header 6}} {{Articles Header 7}} {{Articles Header 8}} {{Articles Header 9}}
	{{BoMGeoTableStart}}		{{BoMGeoTableStart}}
	{{BoMGeo:Goble and May 2002_RAW}}		{{BoMGeo:Goble and May 2002_RAW}}

RKMBot: Bot: Removing fr:Book of Mormon/Geography/Models/Hemispheric/Goble-May 2002

2017-06-05T22:01:51Z

Bot: Removing fr:Book of Mormon/Geography/Models/Hemispheric/Goble-May 2002

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:01, 5 June 2017
Line 42:		Line 42:

	{{Articles Footer 1}} {{Articles Footer 2}} {{Articles Footer 3}} {{Articles Footer 4}} {{Articles Footer 5}} {{Articles Footer 6}} {{Articles Footer 7}} {{Articles Footer 8}} {{Articles Footer 9}} {{Articles Footer 10}}		{{Articles Footer 1}} {{Articles Footer 2}} {{Articles Footer 3}} {{Articles Footer 4}} {{Articles Footer 5}} {{Articles Footer 6}} {{Articles Footer 7}} {{Articles Footer 8}} {{Articles Footer 9}} {{Articles Footer 10}}

	~~[[fr:Book of Mormon/Geography/Models/Hemispheric/Goble-May 2002]]~~

RKMBot: Bot: Automated text replacement (-{{Articles Header 10}} +)

2017-06-02T17:42:37Z

Bot: Automated text replacement (-{{Articles Header 10}} +)

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:42, 2 June 2017
Line 1:		Line 1:
	{{Articles FAIR copyright}} {{Articles Header 1}} {{Articles Header 2}} {{Articles Header 3}} {{Articles Header 4}} {{Articles Header 5}} {{Articles Header 6}} {{Articles Header 7}} {{Articles Header 8}} {{Articles Header 9~~}} {{Articles Header 10~~}}		{{Articles FAIR copyright}} {{Articles Header 1}} {{Articles Header 2}} {{Articles Header 3}} {{Articles Header 4}} {{Articles Header 5}} {{Articles Header 6}} {{Articles Header 7}} {{Articles Header 8}} {{Articles Header 9}}
	{{BoMGeoTableStart}}		{{BoMGeoTableStart}}
	{{BoMGeo:Goble and May 2002_RAW}}		{{BoMGeo:Goble and May 2002_RAW}}

RogerNicholson at 00:55, 22 March 2015

2015-03-22T00:55:20Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:55, 22 March 2015
Line 9:		Line 9:

	==Reviews==		==Reviews==
	* Joe V. Andersen, "[http://www.bmaf.org/~~node~~/~~261~~ A critical Review of Wayne N. May's ''This Land: Zarahemla and the Nephite Nation'']."		* Joe V. Andersen, "[http://www.bmaf.org/articles/review_this_land_zarahemla__andersen A critical Review of Wayne N. May's ''This Land: Zarahemla and the Nephite Nation'']."
	* {{FR-20-2-7}}		* {{FR-20-2-7}}
	===Plagiarism?===		===Plagiarism?===

GregSmith at 04:08, 9 June 2014

2014-06-09T04:08:11Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:08, 9 June 2014
Line 5:		Line 5:

	* Edwin G. Goble and Wayne N. May, ''This Land, Zarahemla and the Nephite Nation: Only One Cumorah'' (Colfax, WI: Ancient American Archaeology Foundation, 2002). ISBN 0970398514.		* Edwin G. Goble and Wayne N. May, ''This Land, Zarahemla and the Nephite Nation: Only One Cumorah'' (Colfax, WI: Ancient American Archaeology Foundation, 2002). ISBN 0970398514.
	* Note that while Wayne May continues to publish this book, Ed Goble has disclaimed the geography and has not profited from that work since 2002 when it was first published.{{~~ref~~\|~~goble~~.1}} He signed over the rights to that book entirely to Wayne May not long after it was published. He also disclaims the use of the fraudulent Soper-Savage (also called the "[[Book of Mormon geography/Michigan artifacts\|Michigan artifacts]]") and [[Book of Mormon geography/Burrows Cave artifacts\|Burrows Cave]] "artifacts."{{~~ref~~\|~~goble~~.2}} May and Goble parted ways in 2002 as a result of a disagreement over Goble's retraction of the book and those artifacts.		* Note that while Wayne May continues to publish this book, Ed Goble has disclaimed the geography and has not profited from that work since 2002 when it was first published.<ref>Ed Goble, comment on FAIR blog, (18 Sept 2008, 8h24) {{link\|url=http://www.fairblog.org/2008/09/03/examining-the-secular-side/#comment-6367}}</ref> He signed over the rights to that book entirely to Wayne May not long after it was published. He also disclaims the use of the fraudulent Soper-Savage (also called the "[[Book of Mormon geography/Michigan artifacts\|Michigan artifacts]]") and [[Book of Mormon geography/Burrows Cave artifacts\|Burrows Cave]] "artifacts."<ref name="g2">Ed Goble, comment on FAIR blog, (5 Sept 2008, 20h22) {{link\|url=http://www.fairblog.org/2008/09/03/examining-the-secular-side/#comment-5404}}</ref> May and Goble parted ways in 2002 as a result of a disagreement over Goble's retraction of the book and those artifacts.
	* Goble has gone in favor of the "Two Heartland" theory ([[Book_of_Mormon_geography/Models/Limited/Goble_2004\|Goble-2004]], published in his newer book ''Resurrecting Cumorah'').		* Goble has gone in favor of the "Two Heartland" theory ([[Book_of_Mormon_geography/Models/Limited/Goble_2004\|Goble-2004]], published in his newer book ''Resurrecting Cumorah'').

Line 13:		Line 13:
	===Plagiarism?===		===Plagiarism?===

	In 2008, Goble charged that Meldrum's model seemed to have plagiarized elements from his first geography ([[Book_of_Mormon_geography/Models/Hemispheric/Goble-May_2002\|Goble-May 2002]]) without attribution.{{ref~~\|goble.3}}~~ More recently, Goble realized that his initial charge against Meldrum's model was too emotionally-based, and that excessive fault-finding about minutia is unproductive.		In 2008, Goble charged that Meldrum's model seemed to have plagiarized elements from his first geography ([[Book_of_Mormon_geography/Models/Hemispheric/Goble-May_2002\|Goble-May 2002]]) without attribution.<ref name="g2"></ref> More recently, Goble realized that his initial charge against Meldrum's model was too emotionally-based, and that excessive fault-finding about minutia is unproductive.

	[[Image:Circle the Michigan artifacts.png\|right\|frame\|Conclusion of DVD uses the Michigan relics as evidence. The DVD elsewhere refers to these artifacts as "a person on a cross" which makes their identity clear ({{DVD:Meldrum:2007\|section=14\|time=7:56}}) For more details, see subheading "Michigan Relics as Evidence," in {{FAIR:Reviews of DNA Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography:Identifying the Nephites}}.]]		[[Image:Circle the Michigan artifacts.png\|right\|frame\|Conclusion of DVD uses the Michigan relics as evidence. The DVD elsewhere refers to these artifacts as "a person on a cross" which makes their identity clear ({{DVD:Meldrum:2007\|section=14\|time=7:56}}) For more details, see subheading "Michigan Relics as Evidence," in {{FAIR:Reviews of DNA Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography:Identifying the Nephites}}.]]
Line 19:		Line 19:
	The head of the FIRM Foundation replied:		The head of the FIRM Foundation replied:

	:''“Seek first to understand, then to be understood” would be a good idea for this last post. You have obviously not seen Meldrum’s DVD as he has no Michigan artifacts in it and he came to his DNA conclusions long before encountering Wayne May.''{{~~ref~~\|~~dna~~.1}}		:''“Seek first to understand, then to be understood” would be a good idea for this last post. You have obviously not seen Meldrum’s DVD as he has no Michigan artifacts in it and he came to his DNA conclusions long before encountering Wayne May.''<ref>DNA Truthseeker [Rod Meldrum], MADB message board post (12 May 2008, 2h11) {{link\|url=http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index.php?s=e910b125dec2ff3fb142c3d599a7f495&showtopic=35020&st=20&p=1208425876&#entry1208425876}}</ref>

	The former claim is false, since the Michigan forgeries are in the presentation (see screenshot image)		The former claim is false, since the Michigan forgeries are in the presentation (see screenshot image)
Line 25:		Line 25:
	The head of the FIRM Foundation later told Goble:		The head of the FIRM Foundation later told Goble:

	:''This geography was not plagerized [sic] from you at all, as you so indicated in your rant. You called ALL of the Great Lakes ‘Sea West’, you claim the ‘Nephite North’ is a highly skewed angle nearly making Lake Ontario and Lake Erie north/south of each other (see p.75 of your book) which completely changes your geographic ideas. I do not espouse either of these arguements [sic]. If you had seen the DVD, you would have known that out geographies are substantially different, if not unrelated. Your unsubstantiated claim that I copied your geography is not true. I began to research North American geographies after I had worked on the DNA evidence. I had come to many preliminary conclusions prior to my meeting Wayne May. I found his geographic ideas were the closest to what I had found, and so went to one of his presentations to learn more. Again I am being accused without evidence in fact. I agree with you, your geography doesn’t work and I don’t blame you for abandoning it. The proposed geography of my DVD has many things that need to be addressed as well, and I am hoping for competent help in establishing a more complete understanding.''{{~~ref~~\|~~meldrum~~.1}}		:''This geography was not plagerized [sic] from you at all, as you so indicated in your rant. You called ALL of the Great Lakes ‘Sea West’, you claim the ‘Nephite North’ is a highly skewed angle nearly making Lake Ontario and Lake Erie north/south of each other (see p.75 of your book) which completely changes your geographic ideas. I do not espouse either of these arguements [sic]. If you had seen the DVD, you would have known that out geographies are substantially different, if not unrelated. Your unsubstantiated claim that I copied your geography is not true. I began to research North American geographies after I had worked on the DNA evidence. I had come to many preliminary conclusions prior to my meeting Wayne May. I found his geographic ideas were the closest to what I had found, and so went to one of his presentations to learn more. Again I am being accused without evidence in fact. I agree with you, your geography doesn’t work and I don’t blame you for abandoning it. The proposed geography of my DVD has many things that need to be addressed as well, and I am hoping for competent help in establishing a more complete understanding.''<ref>Rod Meldrum, comment on FAIR blog, (8 Sept 2008, 19h24) {{link\|url=http://www.fairblog.org/2008/09/03/examining-the-secular-side/#comment-5609}}</ref>

	It has, however, been pointed out that Meldrum's enthusiasm for Goble's book was much greater than his statements might lead us to believe, from a testimonial posted on Wayne May's website:		It has, however, been pointed out that Meldrum's enthusiasm for Goble's book was much greater than his statements might lead us to believe, from a testimonial posted on Wayne May's website:

	:“Wayne May’s book series provides the '''most comprehensive compilation of Book of Mormon'' background history, ''geography'', logical research, and artifacts (complete with photographs), of any book on the subject to date….Open your mind and heart to the information contained in these books, and you will gain a renewed love for the prophet and the Book of Mormon itself. Truth will prevail.”{{~~ref~~\|~~meldrum~~.~~may~~}}		:“Wayne May’s book series provides the '''most comprehensive compilation of Book of Mormon'' background history, ''geography'', logical research, and artifacts (complete with photographs), of any book on the subject to date….Open your mind and heart to the information contained in these books, and you will gain a renewed love for the prophet and the Book of Mormon itself. Truth will prevail.”<ref>Rod Meldrum, (date?) {{link\|url=http://www.hillcumorahhistory.com/bookofmormon-history-immeds.html}}</ref>

	Goble has pointed out that one of his ideas is quite unique, and matches the Heartland model's claim:		Goble has pointed out that one of his ideas is quite unique, and matches the Heartland model's claim:

	:“The idea of a confluence of rivers making up the head of the Sidon is lifted from MY book, Mr. Meldrum. That was MY idea.”{{ref~~\|goble.4}}~~		:“The idea of a confluence of rivers making up the head of the Sidon is lifted from MY book, Mr. Meldrum. That was MY idea.”<ref name="g2"></ref>

	This can be compared with The FIRM Foundation's identical idea.{{~~ref~~\|~~sidonhead~~.1}}		This can be compared with The FIRM Foundation's identical idea.<ref>"The Book of Mormon index indicates the Sidon River flows north into a sea, is this correct?," FAQ, ''bookofmormonevidence.org'' (accessed 9 April 2009) {{link\|url=http://www.bookofmormonevidence.org/FAQ.php}}</ref>

			== ==
			{{Endnotes label}}
			<references />

	~~=={{Endnotes label}}==~~
	~~#{{note\|goble.1}} Ed Goble, comment on FAIR blog, (18 Sept 2008, 8h24) {{link\|url=http://www.fairblog.org/2008/09/03/examining-the-secular-side/#comment-6367}}~~
	~~#{{note\|goble.2}} Ed Goble, comment on FAIR blog, (5 Sept 2008, 20h22) {{link\|url=http://www.fairblog.org/2008/09/03/examining-the-secular-side/#comment-5404}}~~
	~~#{{note\|goble.3}} Ed Goble, comment on FAIR blog, (5 Sept 2008, 20h22) {{link\|url=http://www.fairblog.org/2008/09/03/examining-the-secular-side/#comment-5404}}~~
	#{{note\|dna.1}} DNA Truthseeker [Rod Meldrum], MADB message board post (12 May 2008, 2h11) {{link\|url=http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index.php?s=e910b125dec2ff3fb142c3d599a7f495&showtopic=35020&st=20&p=1208425876&#entry1208425876}}
	~~#{{note\|meldrum.1}} Rod Meldrum, comment on FAIR blog, (8 Sept 2008, 19h24) {{link\|url=http://www.fairblog.org/2008/09/03/examining-the-secular-side/#comment-5609}}~~
	~~#{{note\|meldrum.may}} Rod Meldrum, (date?) {{link\|url=http://www.hillcumorahhistory.com/bookofmormon-history-immeds.html}}~~
	~~#{{note\|goble.4}} Ed Goble, comment on FAIR blog, (5 Sept 2008, 20h22) {{link\|url=http://www.fairblog.org/2008/09/03/examining-the-secular-side/#comment-5404}}~~
	#{{note\|sidonhead.1}} "The Book of Mormon index indicates the Sidon River flows north into a sea, is this correct?," FAQ, ''bookofmormonevidence.org'' (accessed 9 April 2009) {{link\|url=http://www.bookofmormonevidence.org/FAQ.php}}
	{{Articles Footer 1}} {{Articles Footer 2}} {{Articles Footer 3}} {{Articles Footer 4}} {{Articles Footer 5}} {{Articles Footer 6}} {{Articles Footer 7}} {{Articles Footer 8}} {{Articles Footer 9}} {{Articles Footer 10}}		{{Articles Footer 1}} {{Articles Footer 2}} {{Articles Footer 3}} {{Articles Footer 4}} {{Articles Footer 5}} {{Articles Footer 6}} {{Articles Footer 7}} {{Articles Footer 8}} {{Articles Footer 9}} {{Articles Footer 10}}

	[[fr:Book of Mormon/Geography/Models/Hemispheric/Goble-May 2002]]		[[fr:Book of Mormon/Geography/Models/Hemispheric/Goble-May 2002]]

DanaRepouille: /* Plagiarism? */

2011-07-17T17:30:30Z

Plagiarism?

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:30, 17 July 2011
Line 25:		Line 25:
	The head of the FIRM Foundation later told Goble:		The head of the FIRM Foundation later told Goble:

	:''This geography was not plagerized [sic] from you at all, as you so indicated in your rant. You called ALL of the Great Lakes ‘Sea West’, you claim the ‘Nephite North’ is a highly skewed angle nearly making Lake Ontario and Lake Erie north/south of each other (see p.75 of your book) which completely changes your geographic ideas. I do not espouse either of these arguements. If you had seen the DVD, you would have known that out geographies are substantially different, if not unrelated. Your unsubstantiated claim that I copied your geography is not true. I began to research North American geographies after I had worked on the DNA evidence. I had come to many preliminary conclusions prior to my meeting Wayne May. I found his geographic ideas were the closest to what I had found, and so went to one of his presentations to learn more. Again I am being accused without evidence in fact. I agree with you, your geography doesn’t work and I don’t blame you for abandoning it. The proposed geography of my DVD has many things that need to be addressed as well, and I am hoping for competent help in establishing a more complete understanding.''{{ref\|meldrum.1}}		:''This geography was not plagerized [sic] from you at all, as you so indicated in your rant. You called ALL of the Great Lakes ‘Sea West’, you claim the ‘Nephite North’ is a highly skewed angle nearly making Lake Ontario and Lake Erie north/south of each other (see p.75 of your book) which completely changes your geographic ideas. I do not espouse either of these arguements [sic]. If you had seen the DVD, you would have known that out geographies are substantially different, if not unrelated. Your unsubstantiated claim that I copied your geography is not true. I began to research North American geographies after I had worked on the DNA evidence. I had come to many preliminary conclusions prior to my meeting Wayne May. I found his geographic ideas were the closest to what I had found, and so went to one of his presentations to learn more. Again I am being accused without evidence in fact. I agree with you, your geography doesn’t work and I don’t blame you for abandoning it. The proposed geography of my DVD has many things that need to be addressed as well, and I am hoping for competent help in establishing a more complete understanding.''{{ref\|meldrum.1}}

	It has, however, been pointed out that Meldrum's enthusiasm for Goble's book was much greater than his statements might lead us to believe, from a testimonial posted on Wayne May's website:		It has, however, been pointed out that Meldrum's enthusiasm for Goble's book was much greater than his statements might lead us to believe, from a testimonial posted on Wayne May's website:

EdGoble at 18:10, 22 June 2011

2011-06-22T18:10:11Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:10, 22 June 2011
Line 5:		Line 5:

	* Edwin G. Goble and Wayne N. May, ''This Land, Zarahemla and the Nephite Nation: Only One Cumorah'' (Colfax, WI: Ancient American Archaeology Foundation, 2002). ISBN 0970398514.		* Edwin G. Goble and Wayne N. May, ''This Land, Zarahemla and the Nephite Nation: Only One Cumorah'' (Colfax, WI: Ancient American Archaeology Foundation, 2002). ISBN 0970398514.
	* Note that while Wayne May continues to publish this book, Ed Goble has disclaimed the geography ~~and gone in favor of the "Two Heartland" theory ([[Book_of_Mormon_geography/Models/Limited/Goble_2004\|Goble-2004]], published in his newer book ''Resurrecting Cumorah''),~~ and has not profited from ~~the older~~ work since 2002 when it was first published.{{ref\|goble.1}} He signed over the rights ~~of the first ''This Land''~~ book entirely to May not long after it was published~~. They parted ways as a result of a disagreement~~. He also disclaims the use of the fraudulent Soper-Savage (also called the "[[Book of Mormon geography/Michigan artifacts\|Michigan artifacts]]") and [[Book of Mormon geography/Burrows Cave artifacts\|Burrows Cave]] "artifacts."{{ref\|goble.2}}		* Note that while Wayne May continues to publish this book, Ed Goble has disclaimed the geography and has not profited from that work since 2002 when it was first published.{{ref\|goble.1}} He signed over the rights to that book entirely to Wayne May not long after it was published. He also disclaims the use of the fraudulent Soper-Savage (also called the "[[Book of Mormon geography/Michigan artifacts\|Michigan artifacts]]") and [[Book of Mormon geography/Burrows Cave artifacts\|Burrows Cave]] "artifacts."{{ref\|goble.2}} May and Goble parted ways in 2002 as a result of a disagreement over Goble's retraction of the book and those artifacts.
			* Goble has gone in favor of the "Two Heartland" theory ([[Book_of_Mormon_geography/Models/Limited/Goble_2004\|Goble-2004]], published in his newer book ''Resurrecting Cumorah'').

	==Reviews==		==Reviews==
Line 12:		Line 13:
	===Plagiarism?===		===Plagiarism?===

	Goble ~~has also~~ charged that ~~this~~ model plagiarized elements from his first geography ([[Book_of_Mormon_geography/Models/Hemispheric/Goble-May_2002\|Goble-May 2002]]) without attribution.{{ref\|goble.3}}		In 2008, Goble charged that Meldrum's model seemed to have plagiarized elements from his first geography ([[Book_of_Mormon_geography/Models/Hemispheric/Goble-May_2002\|Goble-May 2002]]) without attribution.{{ref\|goble.3}} More recently, Goble realized that his initial charge against Meldrum's model was too emotionally-based, and that excessive fault-finding about minutia is unproductive.

	~~Note:~~ More recently, Goble ~~now realizes~~ that his initial charge against Meldrum's model was too emotionally-based, and that excessive fault-finding about minutia is unproductive. Also, Goble now realizes that any new geographical model based in any particular setting is bound to build upon the former models, and it is understandable how it is that it can be difficult to give credit where each idea one builds upon comes from.

	[[Image:Circle the Michigan artifacts.png\|right\|frame\|Conclusion of DVD uses the Michigan relics as evidence. The DVD elsewhere refers to these artifacts as "a person on a cross" which makes their identity clear ({{DVD:Meldrum:2007\|section=14\|time=7:56}}) For more details, see subheading "Michigan Relics as Evidence," in {{FAIR:Reviews of DNA Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography:Identifying the Nephites}}.]]		[[Image:Circle the Michigan artifacts.png\|right\|frame\|Conclusion of DVD uses the Michigan relics as evidence. The DVD elsewhere refers to these artifacts as "a person on a cross" which makes their identity clear ({{DVD:Meldrum:2007\|section=14\|time=7:56}}) For more details, see subheading "Michigan Relics as Evidence," in {{FAIR:Reviews of DNA Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography:Identifying the Nephites}}.]]