View source for Criticism of Mormonism/Books/The Changing World of Mormonism/Chapter 7

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{{H1
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/The Changing World of Mormonism/Chapter 7
|H=Response to claims made in "Chapter 7: The Godhead"
|T=The Changing World of Mormonism
|A=Jerald and Sandra Tanner
|<=[[../Chapter 6|Chapter 6]]
|>=[[../Chapter 8|Chapter 8]]
}}
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<onlyinclude>
{{H2
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/The Changing World of Mormonism/Chapter 7
|H=Response to claims made in The Changing World of Mormonism, "Chapter 7: The Godhead"
|S=
|L1=Response to claim: 172 - The Book of Mormon teaches that God is a spirit
|L2=Response to claim: 173 - The Book of Moses says that God created the earth, but the Book of Abraham says that "the Gods" created the earth
|L3=Response to claim: 177 - Mormons believe that God is "just an exalted man"
|L4=Response to claim: 178 - There is a "Heavenly Mother"
|L5=Response to claim: 180 - Jesus Christ was conceived through a physical act rather than by the power of the Holy Ghost
|L6=Response to claim: 183 - Four verses in the Book of Mormon were modified in which references to God were changed to refer to the Son of God
|L7=Response to claim: 185 - The Lectures on Faith state that God is a spirit
|L8=Response to claim: 185 - The Lectures on Faith were removed from the Doctrine and Covenants
|L9=Response to claim: 187 - The Book of Mormon teaches that God is "unchangable," but LDS leaders taught otherwise
|L10=Response to claim: 188 - The Lectures on Faith indicate that there are only two personages in the Godhead, and that their mind is the Holy Spirit
|L11=Response to claim: 190 - LDS leaders can't explain why the Holy Ghost should be denied a body since the Father has one
|L12=Response to claim: 190 - The Holy Ghost can't be a God since he doesn't have a body
|L13=Response to claim: 191 - During the First Vision, Joseph learned that the Father and Jesus Christ have bodies of flesh and bones
}}
</onlyinclude>		

==Response to claim: 172 - The Book of Mormon teaches that God is a spirit==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
The Book of Mormon teaches that God is a spirit.
|authorsources=<br>
#	
}}
{{misinformation|The Book of Mormon is not discussing Nicene trinitarianism, and does not contradict the doctrine that God or Jesus possess a physical body	
}}
{{:Question: Does the Book of Mormon teach that God is a spirit?}}

==Response to claim: 173 - The Book of Moses says that God created the earth, but the Book of Abraham says that "the Gods" created the earth==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
The Book of Moses says that God created the earth, but the Book of Abraham says that "the Gods" created the earth.
}}
{{information|"God" may be properly spoken of as one in some senses, and as plural in other senses.	
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{:Question: Are Mormons polytheists because they don't accept the Nicene Creed?}} 
{{:Source:Webb:BYUS:2011:9:Mormon trinitarian views are not polytheistic}}
{{:Source:Webb:BYUS:2011:12:Mormons are not Arians}}
{{:Source:Webb:BYUS:2011:19:Vastness of Joseph Smith's theology - it is not pagan‎}}
{{:Source:Webb:BYUS:2011:21:Joseph Smith's theosis does not supplant God or veer into polytheism}}
{{:Question: Are Christians monotheists?}}

==Response to claim: 177 - Mormons believe that God is "just an exalted man"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Mormons believe that God is "just an exalted man."
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{misinformation|The Saints do not believe that God is "just" anything.  The word "just" shows the authors' biases, and their predetermined conclusion that the creedal view of God is automatically "better."
}}

{{:Source:Gospel Topics:Becoming Like God:Latter-day Saints see all people as children of God in a full and complete sense}}
{{:Question: Do Latter-day Saints believe that they will one day 'supplant' God?}}
{{:Source:Webb:BYUS:2011:21:Joseph Smith's theosis does not supplant God or veer into polytheism}}

==Response to claim: 178 - There is a "Heavenly Mother"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
There is a "Heavenly Mother."
|authorsources=<br>
#	
}}
{{information|This is correct.
}}
{{:Source:Gospel Topics:Becoming Like God:Our theology begins with heavenly parents. Our highest aspiration is to be like them}}
{{:Question: Do Latter-day Saints believe in a female divine person, a "Heavenly Mother" as counterpart to God, the Heavenly Father?}}

==Response to claim: 180 - Jesus Christ was conceived through a physical act rather than by the power of the Holy Ghost==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Jesus Christ was conceived through a physical act rather than by the power of the Holy Ghost.
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{misinformation|LDS scripture teaches that Jesus was conceived when Mary "was carried away in the Spirit" ({{s|1|Nephi|11|19}}).  We know of no details beyond this, save that God the Father was Jesus' literal Father; there is nothing allegorical about Jesus' parentage.
}}
{{:Question: Do Mormons believe that Mary was still a virgin when Jesus was born?}}

==Response to claim: 183 - Four verses in the Book of Mormon were modified in which references to God were changed to refer to the Son of God==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|claim=<br>
*1 Nephi 13:40 was changed from "Christ is the Eternal Father" to "the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father and the Savior of the world."
*1 Nephi 11:18 was changed from "the mother of God" to "the mother of the Son of God"
*1 Nephi 11:21 was changed from "the Lamb of God, yea, even the Eternal Father"  to "the Lamb of God, yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father."
*1 Nephi 11:32 was changed from "the Everlasting God" to "the Son of the everlasting God."
|authorsources=<br>
*Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, p. 32 and 1 Nephi 13:40.
*Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, p. 25 and 1 Nephi 11:18
*Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, p. 26 and 1 Nephi 11:21
*Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, p. 26 and 1 Nephi 11:32
}}
{{information|This is correct.
}}
{{:Question: What changes were made to the 1837 edition of the Book of Mormon?}}

==Response to claim: 185 - The Lectures on Faith state that God is a spirit==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
The Lectures on Faith state that God is a spirit.
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{information|The Lectures on Faith clearly taught a separation of the Father and Son. They also clearly taught that the Father and Son were "embodied," with visible forms having precise dimensions and position in space. Whether Joseph Smith understood at this point that the Father had a physical body (as distinct from a spirit body upon which man's body was patterned) is not entirely clear.
}}
{{:Question: What are the Lectures on Faith?}}
{{:Question: Who wrote the Lectures on Faith?}}
{{:Question: What does Lecture 5 of the Lectures on Faith say about the nature of God?}}
{{:Question: How would a statement that "God is a spirit" be interpreted in ancient Judasism?}}

==Response to claim: 185 - The Lectures on Faith were removed from the Doctrine and Covenants==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
The Lectures on Faith were removed from the Doctrine and Covenants.
|authorsources=<br>
#	
}}
{{information|This is correct.
}}
{{:Question: Why were the Lectures on Faith removed from the Doctrine and Covenants in 1921?}}
{{:Question: Were the Lectures on Faith revelations?}}
{{:Question: Are the ''Lectures on Faith'' not made available through Latter-day Saint sources?}}

==Response to claim: 187 - The Book of Mormon teaches that God is "unchangable," but LDS leaders taught otherwise==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
The Book of Mormon teaches that God is "unchangable," but LDS leaders taught otherwise. 
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{misinformation|The term "unchangeable God" is not referencing a physical state.
}}
{{:Question: Does the Book of Mormon refute Joseph Smith on the nature of God?}}

==Response to claim: 188 - The Lectures on Faith indicate that there are only two personages in the Godhead, and that their mind is the Holy Spirit==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
The Lectures on Faith indicate that there are only two personages in the Godhead, and that their mind is the Holy Spirit.	
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{information|The Lectures did not have a trinitarian view of God—the Father and the Son were clearly distinct personages, united in mind by the Holy Spirit.
}}
{{:Question: What does Lecture 5 of the Lectures on Faith say about the nature of God?}}

==Response to claim: 190 - LDS leaders can't explain why the Holy Ghost should be denied a body since the Father has one==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
LDS leaders can't explain why the Holy Ghost should be denied a body since the Father has one.
}}
{{disinformation|The scriptures tell us why the Holy Ghost does not (at present) have a body: "the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit.  Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us" ({{s||D&C|130|22}}).
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{:Question: Will the Holy Ghost ever receive a physical body?}}

==Response to claim: 190 - The Holy Ghost can't be a God since he doesn't have a body==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
The Holy Ghost can't be a God since he doesn't have a body.
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{misinformation|This is incorrect.
}}
{{:Question: Can the Holy Ghost not be fully God, because he does not have a physical body?}}

==Response to claim: 191 - During the First Vision, Joseph learned that the Father and Jesus Christ have bodies of flesh and bones==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
During the First Vision, Joseph learned that the Father and Jesus Christ have bodies of flesh and bones.
}}
{{misinformation|It is not clear ''when'' Joseph learned that the Father and Son had physical bodies. The First Vision taught Joseph that body was "incorporated"&mdash;i.e., he had form and some location in physical space.  But it is not clear that Joseph immediately understood that this corporeality was made of flesh and bone (e.g., he could have been seeing 'spirit bodies' which still have form and location, but not flesh and bone.)
|authorsources=<br>
#}}


{{endnotes sources}}