View source for Criticism of Mormonism/Books/The Changing World of Mormonism/Chapter 6

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{{H1
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/The Changing World of Mormonism/Chapter 6
|H=Response to claims made in "Chapter 6: The First Vision"
|T=The Changing World of Mormonism
|A=Jerald and Sandra Tanner
|<=[[../Chapter 5|Chapter 5]]
|>=[[../Chapter 7|Chapter 7]]
}}
{{ChartChanging6}}
<onlyinclude>
{{H2
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/The Changing World of Mormonism/Chapter 6
|H=Response to claims made in The Changing World of Mormonism, "Chapter 6: The First Vision"
|S=
|L1=Response to claim: 149 - Oliver Cowdery's 1834 attempt at writing a history of the Church ignored the First Vision
|L2=Response to claim: 149-150 - In 1832, 12 years after the First Vision, Joseph had a revelation that said that a man could not see God without the priesthood
|L3=Response to claim: 150 - There were no references to the First Vision in the 1830s
|L4=Response to claim: 152 - Joseph's 1832 account mentions that he was in the 16th year of his age rather than the 15th
|L5=Response to claim: 154 - The 1832 account only mentions one personage
|L6=Response to claim: 156 - The personages in the 1835 version are not explicitly identified as God the Father and Jesus Christ
|L7=Response to claim: 157 - The 1835 account talks about a visitation of angels instead of the Father and Son
|L8=Response to claim: 159 - Joseph's claim of seeing the Father and the Son was not unique
|L9=Response to claim: 160 - Oliver Cowdery's 1834 history in the Messenger and Advocate did not mention the First Vision
|L10=Response to claim: 162 - "Mormon apologists are beginning to retreat from the idea that God the Father appeared to Joseph Smith"
|L11=Response to claim: 162-163 - The Book of Mormon teaches that there is only one God
|L12=Response to claim: 164 - Brigham Young denied that the Lord came to Joseph Smith in the First Vision
|L13=Response to claim: 164 - John Taylor claimed that an angel appeared during the First Vision
|L14=Response to claim: 164 - George A. Smith claimed that an angel appeared during the First Vision
|L16=Response to claim: 166-171 - There was no revival in the area where Joseph Smith lived in 1820
}}
</onlyinclude>			

==Response to claim: 149 - Oliver Cowdery's 1834 attempt at writing a history of the Church ignored the First Vision==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Oliver Cowdery's 1834 attempt at writing a history of the Church ignored the First Vision.
|authorsources=<br>
#{{CriticalWork:Brodie:No Man Knows|pages=24-25}}
}}
{{misinformation|Actually, the first installed of Cowdery's 1834/1835 history began with the events leading up to the vision, but the second installment published two months later only alluded to the vision as an event of the past, and proceeded to tell the story of Moroni's visit instead. It is evident that Oliver had Joseph Smith's 1832 history in his possession, which clearly describes the First Vision.
}}
{{:Question: Did Oliver Cowdery state that Joseph did not know if a "supreme being" existed in 1823?}}
{{:Question: What criticisms are related to Oliver Cowdery's 1834-1835 history of the Church?}}

==Response to claim: 149-150 - In 1832, 12 years after the First Vision, Joseph had a revelation that said that a man could not see God without the priesthood==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
In 1832, 12 years after the First Vision Joseph had a revelation that said that a man could not see God without the priesthood.
|authorsources=<br>
*D&C 84:21-22
*''Doctrines of Salvation'' 1:4.
}}
{{misinformation|The authors have misinterpreted this scripture that they cite.
}}
{{QuoteMining|Doctrines of Salvation|1:4}}
{{:Question: Does Doctrine and Covenants 84 say that one cannot see God without holding the priesthood?}}

==Response to claim: 150 - There were no references to the First Vision in the 1830s==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
There were no references to the First Vision in the 1830s.
|authorsources=<br>
#
}}
{{disinformation| [[First Vision/No reference to First Vision in 1830s publications|No reference to First Vision in 1830s publications?]]	}}
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{disinformation|This is false.
}}
{{:Question: What references to the First Vision exist in published documents from the 1830s?}}

==Response to claim: 152 - Joseph's 1832 account mentions that he was in the 16th year of his age rather than the 15th==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Joseph's 1832 account mentions that he was in the 16th year of his age rather than the 15th.
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{information|This is correct. An insertion in the handwriting of Frederick G. Williams states that Joseph was in his "16th year."
}}
{{:Question: Why does Joseph Smith state in his 1832 First Vision account that he was in his "16th year" of age?}}

==Response to claim: 154 - The 1832 account only mentions one personage==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
The 1832 account only mentions one personage.
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{misinformation|The 1832 account does not mention "personages" at all, unlike later accounts. It states that Joseph saw and conversed with the Lord, without explicitly mentioning the presence of the other personage.
}}
{{:Question: Why does Joseph Smith's 1832 account of the First Vision not mention two personages?}}

==Response to claim: 156 - The personages in the 1835 version are not explicitly identified as God the Father and Jesus Christ==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
The personages in the 1835 version are not explicitly identified as God the Father and Jesus Christ.
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{propaganda|None of the First Vision accounts, including the one canonized in the current Pearl of Great Price, state explicitly that the personages were the Father and the Son. This is implied when one personage introduced the other as his "beloved Son." However, Church leaders such as John Taylor repeatedly identified the personages as the Father and the Son.
}}
{{:Question: What are the two 1835 First Vision accounts that refer to angels?}}
{{:Question: Why does Joseph Smith's 9 November 1835 account of the First Vision mention "many angels?"}}

==Response to claim: 157 - The 1835 account talks about a visitation of angels instead of the Father and Son==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
The 1835 account talks about a visitation of angels instead of the Father and Son.
|authorsources=<br>
#''Deseret News'', vol. 2, no.15, May 29, 1852
*''History of the Church'' 11:312
}}
{{misinformation|There are two 1835 journal entries that refer to the First Vision. The first one mentions the two personages, and also mentions that there were "many angels" that appeared as well. The second entry, recorded only a few days later, refers to the entire First Vision as the "first visitation of angels." The second entry was simply a summary of the vision, without describing any specific elements.
}}
{{:Question: Does the 14 November 1835 account reference to the "first vision of Angels" mean that Joseph Smith did not see Deity?}}

==Response to claim: 159 - Joseph's claim of seeing the Father and the Son was not unique==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Joseph's claim of seeing the Father and the Son was not unique.	
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{propaganda|So what?  Jesus' teaching of repentance was not unique either. One must assess the fruits of Joseph's prophetic ministry.  How many of those who claimed visions also produced a 500+ page book in less than three months?
}}

==Response to claim: 160 - Oliver Cowdery's 1834 history in the Messenger and Advocate did not mention the First Vision==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Oliver Cowdery's 1834 history in the Messenger and Advocate did not mention the First Vision.
|authorsources=<br>
#''Latter Day Saint's Messenger and Advocate'' 1:42, Feb. 1835.
}}
{{misinformation|Actually, the first installed of Cowdery's 1834/1835 history began with the events leading up to the vision, but the second installment published two months later only alluded to the vision as an event of the past, and proceeded to tell the story of Moroni's visit instead. It is evident that Oliver had Joseph Smith's 1832 history in his possession, which clearly describes the First Vision.
}}
{{:Question: Did Oliver Cowdery state that Joseph did not know if a "supreme being" existed in 1823?}}
{{:Question: What criticisms are related to Oliver Cowdery's 1834-1835 history of the Church?}}

==Response to claim: 162 - "Mormon apologists are beginning to retreat from the idea that God the Father appeared to Joseph Smith"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
"Mormon apologists are beginning to retreat from the idea that God the Father appeared to Joseph Smith"
|authorsources=<br>
#None provided
}}
{{propaganda|This is an absurd claim on the part of the authors, with (as is usual with such things) no evidence presented.
}}

==Response to claim: 162-163 - The Book of Mormon teaches that there is only one God==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
The Book of Mormon teaches that there is only one God.
|authorsources=<br>
*{{s||Mosiah|15|1-2}}
*{{s||Mosiah|15|5}}
*{{s||Ether|3|14}}
}}
{{misinformation|The authors misinterprets what the Book of Mormon says.
}}
* Members of the Church believe that God is one.  They also believe that more than one personage can be spoken of as God.
{{:Question: Does the Book of Mormon teach that Christ and the Father are a single individual expressing himself in different modes?}}

==Response to claim: 164 - Brigham Young denied that the Lord came to Joseph Smith in the First Vision==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Brigham Young denied that the Lord came to Joseph Smith in the First Vision.
|authorsources=<br>
#{{JDfairwiki|author=Brigham Young|disc=31|vol=2|start=171}}
}}
{{disinformation|The authors omit parts of Brigham's statement the contradict their assertion.
}}
{{:Question: What is Brigham Young claimed to have said that leads one to doubt that he denied the First Vision?}}

==Response to claim: 164 - John Taylor claimed that an angel appeared during the First Vision==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
John Taylor claimed that an angel appeared during the First Vision.
|authorsources=<br>
#{{JDfairwiki|author=John Taylor|disc=19|vol=20|start=167}}
}}
{{propaganda|The authors ignore the numerous statements made by John Taylor in which he directly states that the Father and the Son appear, including one that occurred ''the very same day'' that he made the statement about "angels." The authors also do not understand that the term "angels" was also applied to Deity.
}}
{{:Source:John Taylor:2 March 1879:JD 20:167 and 257:First Vision Father and Son or angel}}

==Response to claim: 164 - George A. Smith claimed that an angel appeared during the First Vision==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
George A. Smith claimed that an angel appeared during the First Vision.
|authorsources=<br>
#{{JDfairwiki|author=George A. Smith|disc=63|vol=12|start=333|end=334}}
}}
{{propaganda|The authors ignore clear evidence that George A. Smith was aware of the details of the First Vision, and the fact that the term "angel" could also be applied to Deity.
}}
{{:Question: Was George A. Smith unaware that the Father and Son appeared to Joseph Smith during the First Vision?}}
{{:Source:George A. Smith:1868:JD 12:333-34:revealed to Joseph by the ministration of angels, the true condition of the religious world}}
{{:Source:Günther Juncker (1994):Christ As Angel:Unknown to many, the early church fathers often referred to Jesus as an Angel}}
{{:Question:Is there anything wrong with early Church leaders using the term "angel" to refer to Jesus Christ?}}

==Response to claim: 166-171 - There was no revival in the area where Joseph Smith lived in 1820==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
There was no revival in the area where Joseph Smith lived in 1820.
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{misinformation|Joseph didn't claim that there was a formal "revival," although most people infer that this is the case. Joseph's interest in religion began at age 12 following the 1817-1818 revival, and continued up until the time of the First Vision in 1820. In addition, the Methodists, whom Joseph specifically mentioned, were holding regular camp meetings in the Palmyra area in 1820.
}}
{{:Source:Christofferson:The Prophet Joseph Smith:BYUI Devotional:2013:Critics have also claimed that there were no religious revivals in the Palmyra, New York, area in 1820}}
{{:Question: What religious excitement was occurring in Palmyra in 1820?}}

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