View source for Criticism of Mormonism/Books/The Changing World of Mormonism/Chapter 20

{{Main Page}} 
{{H1
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/The Changing World of Mormonism/Chapter 20
|H=Response to claims made in "Chapter 20: Blood Atonement"
|T=The Changing World of Mormonism
|A=Jerald and Sandra Tanner
|<=[[../Chapter 19|Chapter 19]]
|>=[[../Chapter 21|Chapter 21]]
}}
{{ChartChanging20}}
<onlyinclude>
{{H2
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/The Changing World of Mormonism/Chapter 20
|H=Response to claims made in The Changing World of Mormonism, "Chapter 20: Blood Atonement"
|S=
|L1=Response to claim: 490 - Heber C. Kimball claimed that the apostles killed Judas
|L2=Response to claim: 490-491 - Brigham Young advocated blood atonement
|L3=Response to claim: 491-492 - Jedediah Grant advocated blood atonement
|L4=Response to claim: 493 - Murder was worthy of death
|L5=Response to claim: 493 - Adultery and immorality were worthy of death
|L6=Response to claim: 493 - Brigham Young said that he would put a javelin through the heart of an adulterous woman
|L7=Response to claim: 496 - Stealing was worthy of death
|L8=Response to claim: 496 - Using the name of the Lord in vain was worthy of death
|L9=Response to claim: 496 - Not receiving the Gospel was worthy of death
|L10=Response to claim: 496 - Marrying an African was worthy of death
|L11=Response to claim: 498 - Breaking covenants was worthy of death
|L12=Response to claim: 498-499 - Apostasy was worthy of death
|L13=Response to claim: 500 - Lying was worthy of death
|L14=Response to claim: 500 - Counterfeiting was worthy of death
|L15=Response to claim: 500 - Condemning Joseph Smith was worthy of death
|L16=Response to claim: 501-503 - Blood atonement was "put into practice" in Utah
|L17=Response to claim: 501 - Modern church leaders have confirmed the principle but denied the practice of blood atonement
}}
</onlyinclude>			

==Response to claim: 490 - Heber C. Kimball claimed that the apostles killed Judas==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Heber C. Kimball claimed that the apostles killed Judas. Reed Peck said that Joseph Smith told him of a revelation in which Apostle Peter stated that he had hung Judas. 
|authorsources=<br>
*The Reed Peck Manuscript, p.13
*{{JDfairwiki|author=Heber C. Kimball|disc=19|vol=6|start=125|end=126}}
}}
{{misinformation|The authors have misrepresented what Heber C. Kimball said. This claim is repeated in ''One Nation Under Gods'': [[One Nation Under Gods/Use of sources/Apostles killed Judas|ONUG - apostles kill Judas?]]
}}
{{:Question: Did Heber C. Kimball claim that the apostles killed Judas?}}

==Response to claim: 490-491 - Brigham Young advocated blood atonement==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Brigham Young advocated blood atonement.
|authorsources=<br>
#{{JDfairwiki|author=Brigham Young|vol=4|disc=10|start=53|end=54}}
}}
{{misinformation|Brigham taught the principle of blood atonement, but it was never put into practice.
}}
{{:Question: What is "blood atonement"?}}
{{:Source:Charles Penrose:Improvement Era:September 1912:Do you believe in "blood-atonement"?}}
{{:Question: Did early Mormon leaders teach that apostasy was the unforgivable sin, and that the only thing an apostate could do to redeem himself was to give his own life, willingly or unwillingly?}}

==Response to claim: 491-492 - Jedediah Grant advocated blood atonement==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Jedediah Grant advocated blood atonement.
|authorsources=<br>
#{{JDfairwiki|author=Jedediah Grant|vol=4|disc=9|start=49|end=50}} {{attn}}
}}
{{propaganda|Jedediah Grant was known for his strong rhetoric. This is what he said:
<blockquote>
I say, that there are men and women that I would advise to go to the President immediately, and ask him to appoint a committee to attend to their case; and then let a place be selected, and let that committee shed their blood.

We have those amongst us that are full of all manner of abominations, those who need to have their blood shed, for water will not do, their sins are of too deep a dye.
You may think that I am not teaching you Bible doctrine, but what says the apostle Paul? I would ask how many covenant breakers there are in this city and in this kingdom. I believe that there are a great many; and if they are covenant breakers we need a place designated, where we can shed their blood.
</blockquote>
However, despite Grant's suggestion that such a thing ought to be done, it never actually happened. Grant was trying to make an impression, not teach that blood atonement should be actually implemented.
}}

==Response to claim: 493 - Murder was worthy of death==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Murder was worthy of death.
|authorsources=<br>
*''History of the Church'' 5:296
*''Doctrines of Salvation'' 1:136
*''Mormon Doctrine'', 1958, p.314
}}
{{information|Murder is a crime that is often "worthy of death" even in the 21st century. The Tanner's point is that it required blood atonement. However, the evidence that blood atonement was required is not strong.
}}
{{:Question: Was murder a crime that was "worthy of death" among 19th century Mormons?}}

==Response to claim: 493 - Adultery and immorality were worthy of death==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Adultery and immorality were worthy of death.
|authorsources=<br>
*{{JDfairwiki|author=Heber C. Kimball|vol=7|disc=3|start=20}}
*{{JDfairwiki|author=Heber C. Kimball|vol=6|disc=4|start=38}}
*{{JDfairwiki|author=Heber C. Kimball|vol=7|disc=3|start=19}}
*{{JDfairwiki|author=George A. Smith|vol=1|disc=17|start=97}}
}}
{{misinformation|Kimball is not talking about punishing others - he is talking about punishing himself.
}}
Heber C. Kimball said that he would rather die than be guilty of adultery,
<blockquote>
These are my views, and the Lord knows that I believe in the principles of sanctification; and when I am guilty of seducing any man's wife, or any woman in God's world, I say, sever my head from my body. These have ever been my feelings from the days of my youth. This is my character, and the character of President Brigham Young. It was the character of Joseph Smith and of Jesus Christ; and that is the character of the Apostles of Jesus, and that must be sustained by this people.<ref>{{JDfairwiki|author=Heber C. Kimball|vol=7|disc=3|start=20}}</ref>
</blockquote>

==Response to claim: 493 - Brigham Young said that he would put a javelin through the heart of an adulterous woman==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Brigham Young said that he would put a javelin through the heart of an adulterous woman.
|authorsources=<br>
#{{JDfairwiki|author=Brigham Young|vol=3|disc=35|start=247}}
}}
{{misinformation|Brigham was using a biblical reference to illustrate a point, but he was not endorsing killing adulterers.
}}
{{:Question: Were adultery and immorality crimes that were "worthy of death" among 19th century Mormons?}}

==Response to claim: 496 - Stealing was worthy of death==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Stealing was worthy of death.
|authorsources=<br>
*Times and Seasons, vol. 4, pp.183-84
*History of the Church 7:597
*{{JDfairwiki|author=Brigham Young|vol=1|disc=19|start=108|end=109}}
*{{JDfairwiki|author=Orson Hyde|vol=1|disc=11|start=73}}
}}
{{disinformation|The authors deliberately remove a portion of Brigham Young's quote that clearly indicates that he is speaking rhetorically. Brigham's statement that he has never harmed a man "except with his tongue" was removed from the quote by the critics in order to alter its meaning.
}}
{{:Question: Was stealing a crime that was "worthy of death" among 19th century Mormons?}}

==Response to claim: 496 - Using the name of the Lord in vain was worthy of death==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Using the name of the Lord in vain was worthy of death.
|authorsources=<br>
#Journal of Hosea Stout, vol. 2, p.71; p.56 of the typed copy at Utah State Historical Society
}}
{{disinformation|The authors infer this from a second hand quote, and ignore what Brigham Young actually said on the subject.
}}
{{:Question: Was using the name of the Lord in vain a crime that was "worthy of death" among 19th century Mormons?}}

==Response to claim: 496 - Not receiving the Gospel was worthy of death==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Not receiving the Gospel was worthy of death.
|authorsources=<br>
#{{JDfairwiki|author=Brigham Young|vol=3|disc=30|start=226}}
}}
{{propaganda|This is an absurd claim.
}}
{{:Question: Was "not receiving the Gospel" a crime that was "worthy of death" among 19th century Mormons?}}

==Response to claim: 496 - Marrying an African was worthy of death==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Marrying an African was worthy of death.
|authorsources=<br>
*{{JDfairwiki|author=Brigham Young|vol=10|disc=25|start=110}}
*Wilford Woodruff's Journal, January 16,1852
*''Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought'', Spring 1973, p.26
}}
{{information|Brigham did make statements to this effect, however, there is likely just an example of his rhetoric, since there is no evidence that such a thing ever occurred.
}}
{{:Question: Did Brigham Young say that race mixing was punishable by death?}}

==Response to claim: 498 - Breaking covenants was worthy of death==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Breaking covenants was worthy of death.
|authorsources=<br>
*{{JDfairwiki|author=Jedediah Grant|vol=4|disc=9|start=49|end=51}} {{attn}}
*Deseret News, July 27, 1854
*{{JDfairwiki|author=Heber C. Kimball|vol=4|disc=70|start=375}}
}}
{{disinformation|Brigham Young stated exactly the opposite.
}}
{{:Source:JD 11:262:Brigham Young:There is also a man down the street who tried to exhibit the endowments to a party who was here}}

==Response to claim: 498-499 - Apostasy was worthy of death==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Apostasy was worthy of death.
|authorsources=<br>
*{{JDfairwiki|author=Brigham Young|vol=1|disc=14|start=83}}
*{{JDfairwiki|author=Brigham Young|vol=4|disc=42|start=219|end=220}}
*{{JDfairwiki|author=Heber C. Kimball|vol=6|disc=4|start=34|end=35}}
}}
{{misinformation|Regardless of any rhetoric preached across the pulpit by Brigham Young and others, apostates were never put to death.
}}
{{:Question: Were apostates secretly put to death by "blood atonement" during the administration of Brigham Young?}}

==Response to claim: 500 - Lying was worthy of death==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Lying was worthy of death.
|authorsources=<br>
#"Manuscript History of Brigham Young," December 20, 1846
}}
{{disinformation|Liars were not put to death. The authors misrepresent a quote from Brigham Young to be associated with the concept of "blood atonement."
}}
{{:Question: Was lying a crime that was "worthy of death" among 19th century Mormons?}}

==Response to claim: 500 - Counterfeiting was worthy of death==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Counterfeiting was worthy of death.
|authorsources=<br>
#"Manuscript History of Brigham Young," February 24,1847
}}
{{disinformation|There is no evidence that counterfeiters were ever "put to death".
}}
{{:Question: Was counterfeiting a crime that was "worthy of death" among 19th century Mormons?}}

==Response to claim: 500 - Condemning Joseph Smith was worthy of death==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Condemning Joseph Smith was worthy of death.
|authorsources=<br>
*Quest for Empire, p.127
*Daily journal of Abraham H. Cannon,"" December 6, 1889, pp.205-6
}}
{{disinformation|This claim by the critics is absurd.
}}
{{:Question: Was condemning Joseph Smith a crime that was "worthy of death" among 19th century Mormons?}}

==Response to claim: 501-503 - Blood atonement was "put into practice" in Utah==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Blood atonement was "put into practice" in Utah.
|authorsources=<br>
*Confessions of John D. Lee, 1880, pp.282-83
*Utah Historical Quarterly, January 1958, p.62, note 39
}}
{{propaganda|The "Last Confession and Statement of John D. Lee" was put together by his attorney William W. Bishop after Lee's execution, and its reliability is suspect. If blood atonement were a common occurrence among 19th century Latter-day Saints, there would be a record of such things beyond Lee's statement.
}}

==Response to claim: 501 - Modern church leaders have confirmed the principle but denied the practice of blood atonement==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Modern church leaders have confirmed the principle but denied the practice of blood atonement.
|authorsources=<br>
*Mormon Doctrine, 1958, p.87
*Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp.133-36
}}
{{information|Correct.
}}
{{:Question: What is "blood atonement"?}}

{{endnotes sources}}


<!-- PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE ANYTHING BELOW THIS LINE -->