View source for Criticism of Mormonism/Books/The Changing World of Mormonism/Chapter 11

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{{H1
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/The Changing World of Mormonism/Chapter 11
|H=Response to claims made in "Chapter 11: Fall of the Book of Abraham"
|T=The Changing World of Mormonism
|A=Jerald and Sandra Tanner
|<=[[../Chapter 10|Chapter 10]]
|>=[[../Chapter 12|Chapter 12]]
}}
{{ChartChanging11}}
<onlyinclude>
{{H2
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/The Changing World of Mormonism/Chapter 11
|H=Response to claims made in The Changing World of Mormonism, "Chapter 11: Fall of the Book of Abraham"
|S=
|L1=Response to claim: 329-330 - Joseph claimed that the papyrus was written by Abraham himself
|L2=Response to claim: 330-331 - Hugh Nibley said that the papyri does not prove the Book of Abraham to be true and the LDS scholars were unprepared
|L3=Response to claim: 335 - Since the translation of the papyri was turned over to Hugh Nibley, this proves that the prophet does not have the ability to translate ancient records
|L4=Response to claim: 336 - Facsimile 1 does not show Abraham fastened to an altar being sacrificed, but instead shows Hor being prepared for burial
|L5=Response to claim: 337 - LDS leaders were unable to detect the Hofmann forgeries
|L6=Response to claim: 339 - "Mormon elder" Dee Jay Nelson, who claimed to be an Egyptologist, translated the papyri but was unable to find any mention of Abraham
|L7=Response to claim: 342 - Joseph Smith translated a "large number of English words" from each Egyptian character
|L8=Response to claim: 343 - Joseph used four lines from the papyrus to generate 49 verses in the Book of Abraham
|L9=Response to claim: 351 - The papyri have been dated to a much later time than Abraham, therefore they could not have been written by Abraham's "own hand on papyrus"
|L10=Response to claim: 358-361 - In Facsimile #1, the penciled-in restoration is incorrect
}}
</onlyinclude>

==Response to claim: 329-330 - Joseph claimed that the papyrus was written by Abraham himself==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Joseph claimed that the papyrus was written by Abraham himself.
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{information|Joseph believed that Abraham had written the papyrus himself.
}}
{{:Question: Why does the Book of Abraham state that it was written by Abraham's "own hand upon papyrus" if the papyri date to after the Abrahamic period?}}

==Response to claim: 330-331 - Hugh Nibley said that the papyri does not prove the Book of Abraham to be true and the LDS scholars were unprepared==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Hugh Nibley said that the papyri does not prove the Book of Abraham to be true and the LDS scholars were unprepared.
|authorsources=<br>
*''Daily Universe'', Brigham Young University, December 1, 1967 
* ''BYU Studies'', Winter 1968, pp.171-72 (Vol. 8, No. 2, [http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/byustudies&CISOPTR=2412&REC=8 Prolegomena to Any Study of The Book of Abraham"])
}}
{{information|Nibley was not of the opinion that scripture ''could'' be proven save by the Holy Ghost. Most scholars were "unprepared" because they had not prepared themselves to study Egyptian: "...a few faded and tattered little scraps of papyrus may serve to remind the Latter-day Saints of how sadly they have neglected serious education....Wholly committed and given fair warning, the Mormons have deserved even the unfair verdict that the world passed against them and the Prophet in 1912, when eight professional scholars condemned Joseph Smith's interpretations of the Facsimiles as utterly absurd; for had any of the Saints during the past century ever taken the pains to check up on the actual state of Egyptian studies in the world, it would have been an easy thing to show how abyssmally inept the performance of Dr. Spalding's panel of experts really was" (''BYU Studies'' article cited by Tanners). 

Nibley himself was fairly well suited to a study of the papyri:
::In reality, Dr. Nibley's first study of Egyptian was in 1927; he used it in his Ph.D. dissertation and in articles published in 1945, 1948, 1949, 1956, to mention but a few examples. In 1959, while on sabbatical leave at the University of California at Berkeley, Nibley became Klaus Baer's first student in Egyptian and learned Coptic at the same time. It was during the summer of 1964 that Nibley studied under both Baer and Wilson at the University of Chicago. When the papyri appeared, it had been forty years since Nibley's first introduction to Egyptian. If there was anything Nibley was relatively new at in 1968, it was Coptic, but he had even published in scholarly journals on texts in that language as well. <ref>{{FR-4-1-15}}</ref>
}}

==Response to claim: 335 - Since the translation of the papyri was turned over to Hugh Nibley, this proves that the prophet does not have the ability to translate ancient records==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Since the translation of the papyri was turned over to Hugh Nibley, this proves that the prophet does not have the ability to translate ancient records.
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{propaganda|The Book of Abraham has already been given to us.  Why would it need to be "re-translated"?
}}
* The Book of Abraham has already been given to us.  Why would it need to be "re-translated"?  Prophets only translate when no one else is able to do the job ({{s|2|Nephi|27|15-20}}).
* Nibley [[Book of Abraham/Joseph Smith Papyri/Church disclosure of "Book of the Dead"|insisted that the papyri]] in the Church's possession were ''not'' the Book of Abraham.

==Response to claim: 336 - Facsimile 1 does not show Abraham fastened to an altar being sacrificed, but instead shows Hor being prepared for burial==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|claim=
Facsimile 1 does not show Abraham fastened to an altar being sacrificed, but instead shows Hor being prepared for burial.
|authorsources=<br>
#	
}}
{{misinformation|Facsimile 1 does not show a body being prepared for burial - the individual on the lion couch is obviously alive. This may be a depiction of the resurrection of Osiris.
}}
{{:Question: What does the lion couch scene normally represent?}}
{{:Question: Is Joseph Smith papyri Facsimile 1 common and similar to other such scenes?}}
{{:Source:Muhlestein:Gee:Human sacrifice in ancient Egypt}}
{{:Source:The Apocalypse of Abraham:Go out from thy father Terah, and get thee out from the house, that thou also be not slain}}
{{:Source:Book of Jubilees:Chapter 12:1-8:Abraham tells his father that he should not worship idols}}

==Response to claim: 337 - LDS leaders were unable to detect the Hofmann forgeries==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|claim=
LDS leaders were unable to detect the Hofmann forgeries. If they were really led be revelation, they should have been able to figure out that the documents were fake.
|authorsources=<br>
#	
}}
{{propaganda|This is the author's opinion of how a prophet ought to operate.
}}
{{:Question: If Gordon B. Hinckley were a true prophet, why did he not discern the nature of the Hofmann forgeries?}}

==Response to claim: 339 - "Mormon elder" Dee Jay Nelson, who claimed to be an Egyptologist, translated the papyri but was unable to find any mention of Abraham==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
"Mormon elder" Dee Jay Nelson, who claimed to be an Egyptologist, translated the papyri but was unable to find any mention of Abraham. Even though Nelson was later exposed to be a fraud, "This is not to say that his work has no merit." 	
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{disinformation|Dee Jay Nelson was a fraud, and the work that he performed was a fraud, since Nelson had no qualifications. However, since it attacks the Church, Tanners aren't willing to dispense with it!
}}

==Response to claim: 342 - Joseph Smith translated a "large number of English words" from each Egyptian character==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Joseph Smith's "Egyptian Alphabet and Grammar" contain text that matches a portion of one of the papyri. Joseph Smith translated a "large number of English words" from each Egyptian character.
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{misinformation|The author is assuming that the Egyptian Alphabet and Grammar were produced prior to the Book of Abraham instead of afterward.
}}
{{:Question: What are the Kirtland Egyptian Papers and Grammar and Alphabet of the Egyptian Language?}}
{{:Question: Were the Kirtland Egyptian Papers and Egyptian Alphabet and Grammar produced prior to the Book of Abraham?}}

==Response to claim: 343 - Joseph used four lines from the papyrus to generate 49 verses in the Book of Abraham==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
Joseph used four lines from the papyrus to generate 49 verses in the Book of Abraham.
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{misinformation|Joseph appears to have used the Book of Abraham translation in an attempt to deduce the meaning of Egyptian characters on the papyri.
}}
{{:Question: In the Kirtland Egyptian Papers, why is each Egyptian character matched to an entire paragraph of English text?}}
{{:Source:Gospel Topics:Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham:Some evidence suggests that Joseph studied the characters on the Egyptian papyri and attempted to learn the Egyptian language}}

==Response to claim: 351 - The papyri have been dated to a much later time than Abraham, therefore they could not have been written by Abraham's "own hand on papyrus"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|claim=
The papyri have been dated to a much later time than Abraham, therefore they could not have been written by Abraham's "own hand on papyrus."
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{information|This is correct.
}}
{{:Question: Why does the Book of Abraham state that it was written by Abraham's "own hand upon papyrus" if the papyri date to after the Abrahamic period?}}

==Response to claim: 358-361 - In Facsimile #1, the penciled-in restoration is incorrect==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=The Changing World of Mormonism
|claim=
In Facsimile #1, the penciled-in restoration is incorrect.
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{information|This is correct, however, it is not known if Joseph Smith penciled in these restorations. It is possible that Joseph, Reuben Hedlock (the engraver), or someone else simply filled in the lacunae in the papyri the best he could for purposes of publication.
}}
{{:Question: How were the missing portions of the Joseph Smith Papyri facsimiles restored?}}
{{:Question: What portions of the image were missing from Facsimile 1?}}
{{:Question: Was the head of the priest in Facsimile 1 incorrectly restored?}}
{{:Question: When was the scroll containing Facsimile 1 damaged?}}
{{:Question: Were missing portions of Facsimile 2 incorrectly restored?}}

{{endnotes sources}}



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