View source for Criticism of Mormonism/Books/Mormonism 101/Chapter 12

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|H=Response to claims made in "Chapter 12: Heaven and Hell"
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|T=[[../../|Mormonism 101]]
|A=Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson
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|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/Mormonism 101/Chapter 12
|H=Response to claims made in Mormonism 101, "Chapter 12: Heaven and Hell"
|S=
|L1=Response to claim: 171 - The authors state that the LDS believe that "a person is destined for one of six places after death"
|L2=Response to claim: 172 - The key to understanding LDS soteriology is to "examine the biblical proof texts the Latter-day Saints use...to support their views"
|L3=Response to claim: 172 - "many scholars believe that Paul was referring to heavenly bodies such as the moon, sun, and stars"
|L4=Response to claim: 172 - The next "proof text" the authors consider is 2 Corinthians 12:2-4: "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago...such a one caught up to the third heaven..."
|L5=Response to claim: 17-174 - The authors state that Outer Darkness is reserved for those who commit murder or apostasize until they are resurrected and judged, and that those who fail to enter the Telestial kingdom after judgment will "return again to outer darkness, this time for eternity"
|L6=Response to claim: 174-175 - The authors claim that Mormons' understanding of the Telestial Kingdom "is completely foreign to the Bible"
|L7=Response to claim: 175-176 - "For those whose 'righteousness' will enable them to escape both outer darkness and the telestial kingdom, the next level up is a terrestrial kingdom"
|L8=Response to claim: 177 - The authors claim that "Mormon males become gods of their newly inherited worlds" in the Celestial Kingdom
|L9=Response to claim: 178 - LDS theology teaches that people can become angels. According to the authors, the "Bible, however, does not teach that people become angels. Angels are a distinct creation of God"
|L10=Response to claim: 179 - "Mormon males and their goddess wives will have the ability to populate the worlds they will inherit"
|L11=Response to claim: 179-180 - "Mormonism's heaven revolves around personal adoration and eternal sexual relations"
|L12=Response to claim: 181 - The authors note that any "earth that a faithful Mormon hopes to eventually inherit, is predestined to be infected with sin" and that the "Mormon as 'God' will be in charge of the mess"
|L13=Response to claim: 182-183 - "Only a people ignorant of God's righteousness can think that they can establish their own righteousness and thereby meet the standard of God's absolute perfection"
|L14=Response to claim: 184 - The authors claim that "those who believe that personal merit will vindicate them will be horribly disappointed"
}}
</onlyinclude>

==Response to claim: 171 - The authors state that the LDS believe that "a person is destined for one of six places after death"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Mormonism 101
|claim=
The authors state that the LDS believe that "a person is destined for one of six places after death," by which they mean Perdition, or Outer Darkness, the Telestial Kingdom, the Terrestrial Kingdom, and the three levels of the Celestial Kingdom. 
}}
{{propaganda|
|spin=By failing at the outset to make the critical distinction that these destinies are not determined until after the Judgment, not just after death, they sow the first seeds of confusion which permeate this chapter.
}}

==Response to claim: 172 - The key to understanding LDS soteriology is to "examine the biblical proof texts the Latter-day Saints use...to support their views"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Mormonism 101
|claim=
The authors make the first error of "preaching to the choir" in the chapter, when they write that the key to understanding LDS soteriology is to "examine the biblical proof texts the Latter-day Saints use...to support their views." 
}}
{{misinformation|
|mistake=Anyone who understands the Restored Gospel will know that we do not base our doctrine upon proof texts <ref>In apologetic terms, a proof text is typically a scripture, often pulled out of context, used to prove a doctrinal point.</ref> from the Bible (or anywhere else, for that matter), but upon latter-day revelation. 
|facts=Since we do not believe our teachings contradict the Bible, it is quite normal (even normative) that we would preach from the scriptures, but they are the reflection of our doctrine, not its source-a confusion all too easy for a Biblicist to make, for whom the relationship between doctrine and scripture goes exactly the other way around.
}}

==Response to claim: 172 - "many scholars believe that Paul was referring to heavenly bodies such as the moon, sun, and stars"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Mormonism 101
|claim=
The first alleged "proof text" examined by the authors is 1 Corinthians 15:40, "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial...". They say that in light of verse 41, where Paul makes the comparison between the light of the sun, the moon and the stars as a simile for the difference in glories between the three kingdoms, that "many scholars believe that Paul was referring to heavenly bodies such as the moon, sun, and stars." 
}}
{{misinformation|
|mistake=Well, yes&mdash;that is the whole point of a simile. If one were to say "my true love's eyes are like almonds," one is not writing an agronomy treatise, but, yes, one is referring to almonds. 
|facts=Paul's analogy works like this: "There are A, B, and C...so too is the resurrection of the dead (verse 42)"&mdash;a classic simile. To misunderstand such a fundamental literary feature as a simile does not bode well for the authors' understanding of the even more sophisticated literary forms that Paul often employs.

The authors then say, "One thing for sure, there is no mention of 'bodies telestial.'" No, not in so many words, but Paul's simile is quite clearly tripartite, using the symbolism of the sun, the earth and the stars, so "telestial" (meaning "stellar," or "of stars") is hardly out of harmony with the verse. Because of their Biblicist background, they accuse Joseph Smith of a rather barefaced attempt to "bolster his erroneous doctrine" by inserting the word into the Joseph Smith Translation. However, it's well known that people in the nineteenth century often made what are technically called paraphrases (Thomas Jefferson made one of the New Testament which reflected his proto-Unitarian beliefs, for instance). A paraphrase is not a translation in the secular sense of looking at texts in other languages and then redacting (editing and recombing) the various texts and rendering the resultant consensus in the target language, and this latter, modern sense of translation has never been claimed by Latter-day Saints on behalf of the Joseph Smith Translation-it is, in fact, not canonical for precisely that reason (that is, his paraphrase as a study project was interrupted by his martyrdom so is incomplete at best). In any case, the term fits doctrinally and in the sense of the language Paul uses here, and its insertion would be problematic only for Biblicists (in other words, this is yet another error of "preaching to the choir").
}}
*{{Detail_old|Bible/Three degrees of glory not biblical/1 Corinthians 15:40|Plan of salvation/Three degrees of glory/History of the belief in a three-part heaven|l1=1 Corinthians 15:40 as a "proof text?"|l2=History of the belief in a three-part heaven}}

==Response to claim: 172 - The next "proof text" the authors consider is 2 Corinthians 12:2-4: "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago...such a one caught up to the third heaven..."==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Mormonism 101
|claim=
The next "proof text" the authors consider is 2 Corinthians 12:2-4: "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such a one caught up to the third heaven..."
}}
{{misinformation|
|mistake=They start off in their usual way, with the circular assumption that we are basing our doctrines upon passages like this, rather than teaching doctrine from the scriptures, which is not quite the same thing. They then skim lightly over the scholarly tradition of Jews in a rather evasive way with the claim:
<blockquote>
Using these passages to validate the idea of three kingdoms making up heaven ignores the Jewish tradition Paul would have known. According to that tradition, paradise was the abode of God, the place of eternal joy for God's people. However, Jewish custom never viewed a first or second heaven as alternative eternal destinations. Rather, these referred to the atmospheric heaven (the sky) and the galactic heaven (the universe).
</blockquote>
|facts=If this sounds remarkably, even anachronistically modern, it's because it is. It turns out not to be Jewish at all: their reference is to the eighteenth-century Enlightenment-era Protestant commentator Matthew Henry, who writes:
<blockquote>
It was certainly a very extraordinary honour done him: in some sense he was caught up into the third heaven, the heaven of the blessed, above the aerial heaven, in which the fowls fly, above the starry heaven, which is adorned with those glorious orbs: it was into the third heaven, where God most eminently manifests His glory. <ref>Matthew Henry, Matthew Henry's Commentary of the Whole Bible (McLean, Virginia: MacDonald Publishing Co., 1706), 6:641.</ref>
</blockquote>

Such a glaring error leads one to believe that perhaps they don't think people will check their footnotes-another sign of the "down-market" audience for which their book seems to be intended.
}}
*{{Detail_old|Bible/Three degrees of glory not biblical/2 Corinthians 12:2-4|Plan of salvation/Three degrees of glory/History of the belief in a three-part heaven|l1=2 Corinthians 12:2-4 as a "proof text?"|l2=History of the belief in a three-part heaven}}

==Response to claim: 17-174 - The authors state that Outer Darkness is reserved for those who commit murder or apostasize until they are resurrected and judged, and that those who fail to enter the Telestial kingdom after judgment will "return again to outer darkness, this time for eternity"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Mormonism 101
|claim=
The authors state that Outer Darkness is reserved for those who commit murder or apostasize until they are resurrected and judged, and that those who fail to enter the Telestial kingdom after judgment will "return again to outer darkness, this time for eternity."
|authorsources=<br>
#Bruce R. McConkie, ''Doctrinal New Testament Commentary'', 3:75.
*George Q. Cannon, ''Gospel Truth'', 1:62.
*Bruce R. McConkie, ''Mormon Doctrine'', 757.
*Bruce R. McConkie, ''Mormon Doctrine'', 350.
*Joseph Fielding Smith, ''Doctrines of Salvation'', 2:220.
}}
{{misinformation|
|mistake=The authors misinterpret the LDS concept of "outer darkness."
}}
*{{Detail_old|Plan of salvation/Sons of Perdition/Eventual fate|Plan of salvation/Sons of Perdition/Will sons of perdition be resurrected|l1=Fate of the "Sons of Perdition"|l2=Will the "sons of Perdition" be resurrected?}}

==Response to claim: 174-175 - The authors claim that Mormons' understanding of the Telestial Kingdom "is completely foreign to the Bible"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Mormonism 101
|claim=
The authors claim the following concerning our understanding of the Telestial Kingdom:
<blockquote>
It is said that it "surpasses all understanding"; and that even its inhabitants, the last to be redeemed, and even then deprived of the personal presence of God and the Christ, shall nevertheless receive the ministration of angels and the Holy Ghost...is completely foreign to the Bible.
</blockquote>
}}
{{misinformation|
|mistake=Since the authors make absolutely no connection between how they interpret Biblical terms and modern LDS terminology, this claim doesn't even make sense. Their criticism could conceivably be true-if only we knew what they meant by the terms the Bible uses. 
|facts=Since the Bible itself so clearly teaches that Christ Himself went to minister to the souls in Hell (sheol), as referred to in 1 Peter 3:18-19 and 4:6, one can see that any serious attempt by a reviewer to take their criticisms at face value crashes upon the shoals of inconsistency and profound ignorance of the terminology used in the Bible.
}}

==Response to claim: 175-176 - "For those whose 'righteousness' will enable them to escape both outer darkness and the telestial kingdom, the next level up is a terrestrial kingdom"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Mormonism 101
|claim=
The authors state,
<blockquote>
For those whose "righteousness" will enable them to escape both outer darkness and the telestial kingdom, the next level up is a terrestrial kingdom...
</blockquote>
|authorsources=<br>
#Ludlow, ed., "Degrees of Glory," ''Encyclopedia of Mormonism'', vol. 1, 368. 
*Spencer W. Kimball, ''Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball'', 48.
}}
{{misinformation|
|mistake=The authors misrepresent LDS belief by indicating that a person's "righteousness" will allow them to "escape" outer darkness and the telestial kingdom. 
|facts=They do not mention the atonement of Christ, thus implying that Latter-day Saints must "work" for their salvation.
}}

==Response to claim: 177 - The authors claim that "Mormon males become gods of their newly inherited worlds" in the Celestial Kingdom==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Mormonism 101
|claim=
The authors claim that "Mormon males become gods of their newly inherited worlds" in the Celestial Kingdom.
|authorsources=<br>
#Ludlow, ed., "Marriage," ''Encyclopedia of Mormonism'', vol. 2, 858.
}}
{{misinformation|
|mistake=The quote used by the authors says nothing about "Mormon males" becoming gods of "inherited worlds." 
|facts=It talks of looking "forward to an association in the postmortal world with a worthy spouse, and with those who were earthly children, fathers, mothers, brothers, and sisters."
}}
*{{Detail_old|MormonFAQ/Myths and Questions#"Mormons believe that they can become gods and rule over their own planets."|Nature of God/Deification of man|l1=Do Latter-day Saints believe that they can become gods and rule over their own planets?}}

==Response to claim: 178 - LDS theology teaches that people can become angels. According to the authors, the "Bible, however, does not teach that people become angels. Angels are a distinct creation of God"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Mormonism 101
|claim=
LDS theology teaches that people can become angels. According to the authors, the "Bible, however, does not teach that people become angels. Angels are a distinct creation of God." They quote Psalm 148:2, 5,
<blockquote>
Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts....Let them praise the name of the ''Lord'': for he commanded, and they were created."
</blockquote>
|authorsources=<br>
#Psalm 148:2
*Psalm 148:5
}}
{{misinformation|
|mistake=It's all too easy to be tempted to look up {{s||Psalms|148|2}} and {{s||Psalms|148|5}} and see what's in the intervening verses. Upon doing so, one learns that verses 3 and 4 include the exhortation to praise God to the sun and the moon and the stars of light, the heavens of heavens, and the waters that are above the heavens. God created everything, including us, and including angels and including the physical universe.  Note the reference to multiple heavens: "the heaven of heavens."
|facts=There is no one-to-one relationship here that suggests that angels are not human species, merely humans at a different stage of development or playing a different role. That many today believe angels to be a different species of some kind is not an original Christian doctrine, nor is it an original Jewish doctrine.
}}
*{{Detail_old|Plan of salvation/Angels}}

==Response to claim: 179 - "Mormon males and their goddess wives will have the ability to populate the worlds they will inherit"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Mormonism 101
|claim=
According to the authors, "Mormon males and their goddess wives will have the ability to populate the worlds they will inherit."
|authorsources=<br>
#Joseph Fielding Smith, ''The Way to Perfection'', 238-239.
}}
{{propaganda|
|spin=This is a misrepresentation of Mormon belief.
}}
{{:Question: Do Mormon men believe that they will become "gods of their own planets" and rule over others?}}

==Response to claim: 179-180 - "Mormonism's heaven revolves around personal adoration and eternal sexual relations"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Mormonism 101
|claim=
The authors claim that,
<blockquote>
Much of the LDS outlook on true salvation centers on the desires of the Mormon individual and not on Jesus Christ. Rather than the picture portrayed in the Book of Revelation, where God's saints pay rightful homage to the One who redeemed them, the Mormon heavenly system is more focused on personal power, gain, and sex.
</blockquote>
*The authors go on to say the "Mormonism's heaven revolves around personal adoration and eternal sexual relations."
|authorsources=<br>
*Orson Pratt, ''The Seer'', 37.
*Personal e-mail message sent to Bill McKeever, 19 May 1997.
}}
{{disinformation|
|falsehood=The authors have created a truly repulsive and offensive characterization of Latter-day Saint beliefs which is hardly worthy of response, with sources being Orson Pratt's ''The Seer'' (which was repudiated by the Church) and a "personal e-mail message to Bill McKeever."

The authors' characterization of theosis (deification, eternal progression), either in its early Christian or latter-day Christian form, as being self-centered ("more focused on personal power, gain, and sex" as they put it) is nothing more than a cheap shot. They unwittingly echo a common criticism by atheists of religion as a whole being self-centered. They contrast what they see in LDS doctrine with the image of worshiping God in Revelation, forgetting that Revelation is a canonical book for Latter-day Saints, too. They do not explain this contradiction. 
|facts=For the record, all the speculations of nineteenth-century brethren aside (which, like the circular arguers that the authors are, they assume we lend all written material equal doctrinal weight-which we clearly do not) they assume all LDS writings are as indicative of LDS doctrine as are our canonical scriptures. This is circular because it argues a point of our doctrine based on one of their assumptions-that the written word is the Word of God, not a record of the Word of God. And in any case, uniquely LDS scripture happens both to echo the apocalyptic worshiping of God as in Revelation, along with the primacy of God in LDS soteriology (doctrines regarding salvation) and eschatology (doctrines concerning the latter days):
<blockquote>
And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end. ({{s||Mormon|7|7}})
<br><br>
...for God said unto me: Worship God, for him only shalt thou serve. ({{s||Moses|1|15}})
</blockquote>
}}
{{:Question: Do Latter-day Saints believe in a practice called "celestial sex," and that this is the manner in which "spirit children" are formed?}}
{{:Question: What have Latter-day Saint leaders actually said about the method of procreation in the afterlife?}}

==Response to claim: 181 - The authors note that any "earth that a faithful Mormon hopes to eventually inherit, is predestined to be infected with sin" and that the "Mormon as 'God' will be in charge of the mess"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Mormonism 101
|claim=
The authors note that any "earth that a faithful Mormon hopes to eventually inherit, is predestined to be infected with sin" and that the "Mormon as 'God' will be in charge of the mess." Not content to treat the LDS as Biblicists by giving every speculative personal LDS commentary the same weight as scripture, the authors go on to draw their own conclusions and present this as if it were LDS doctrine: 
<blockquote>"Every Mormon couple who obtains exaltation has no choice but to look forward to the day when one of their own children will serve as a tempter and cause one-third of the other family members to rebel and fall into sin." 
</blockquote>

In footnote 30 on page 303, the authors present this bizarre scenario:
<blockquote>
According to Mormonism, this planet is said to be a portion of Elohim's inheritance and reward for a life of good works in a previous world...Given this LDS premise, does it seem reasonable that God is overflowing with joy watching His creation stumble through life? Does He bubble with pride as He witnesses His creation killing each other in war, aborting their babies, overdosing on drugs, and stealing from each other? Only the most sadistic of creatures would define heaven in such a disappointing way.
</blockquote>
|authorsources=<br>
#{{JDfairwiki|author=Brigham Young|vol=14|disc=10|start=71|end=72}}
}}
{{propaganda|
|spin=As if this non sequitur weren't vivid enough, they bring in the names of Auschwitz, Rwanda, Tiananmen Square and Kosovo in a melodramatic attempt to paint a horrible vision of "Mormon eternity."
|facts=There is no better condemnation of this kind of overheated prose than to quote the authors' own words against them: "Perhaps with our sin-tainted minds, such a wondrous concept would be difficult to grasp." Indeed. But the way to at least begin to grasp it is to ask the LDS what we believe, not presume to tell us what we believe.

Regarding the authors' absolutely irreverent view of "Mormon heaven," of course God does not "bubble with pride" when he sees his children commit heinous sin. The scriptures are filled with evidence of the displeasure of God. The authors have seriously twisted LDS belief into a caricature of the truth.
}}

==Response to claim: 182-183 - "Only a people ignorant of God's righteousness can think that they can establish their own righteousness and thereby meet the standard of God's absolute perfection"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Mormonism 101
|claim=
The authors state that "[o]nly a people ignorant of God's righteousness can think that they can establish their own righteousness and thereby meet the standard of God's absolute perfection. How disappointed they will be to hear the words found in Matthew 25:41: 'Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.'"
}}
{{misinformation|
|mistake=Again, the authors claim that Latter-day Saints are attempting to "establish their own righteousness" with no mention of our dependency upon the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
}}
*{{Detail_old|Plan of salvation}}

==Response to claim: 184 - The authors claim that "those who believe that personal merit will vindicate them will be horribly disappointed"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Mormonism 101
|claim=
The authors claim that "those who believe that personal merit will vindicate them will be horribly disappointed. Exposed as insufficient will be sin-tainted deeds performed with the anticipation of individual exaltation. A life dedicated to self-glorification will not be enough to assuage God's demand for perfection. A horrible end also lies in store for those who pride themselves in their false religion...neither the Jesus of Mormonism nor the Jesus of any other false religion has any power to save..."
}}
{{propaganda|
|spin=The authors attempt to imply that Latter-day Saints do not worship the same Jesus that they do.
}}
*{{Detail_old|Plan of salvation/Three degrees of glory/Concept of Hell}}

{{endnotes sources}}



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