View source for Criticism of Mormonism/Books/An Insider's View of Mormon Origins/Chapter 8

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|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/An Insider's View of Mormon Origins/Chapter 8
|H=Response to claims made in "Chapter 8: The First Vision"
|T=[[../../|An Insider's View of Mormon Origins]]
|A=Grant Palmer
|<=[[../Chapter 7|Claims made in "Chapter 7: Priesthood Restoration"]]
|>=[[../Conclusion|Claims made in "Conclusion"]]
}}
[[File:Chart.insiders.view.chapter 8 first vision.png|center|frame]]
<onlyinclude>
{{H2
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/An Insider's View of Mormon Origins/Index/Chapter 8
|H=Response to claims made in An Insider's View of Mormon Origins, "Chapter 8: The First Vision"
|S=
|L1=Response to claim: 239 - "The Book of Commandments...contains nothing on such important events as Joseph's first vision"
|L2=Response to claim: 239 - The Book of Commandments states that it was the Book of Mormon that constituted Joseph's call to the work
|L3=Response to claim: 239, n5 - Oliver Cowdery claimed that it was Moroni that called Joseph to the work rather than Jesus in the First Vision
|L4=Response to claim: 239 - Joseph viewed his First Vision in "evangelical Protestant fashion" until 1838 and "viewed his epiphany" in this fashion until 1838
|L5=Response to claim: 240, n7 - Joseph is claimed to "not yet mention the appearance of God the Father" in his 1835 First Vision account
|L6=Response to claim: 240 - The author claims that Joseph rewrote his personal conversion experience in 1838 to satisfy institutional needs
|L7=Response to claim: 240, n8 - The 1820 revival described by Joseph better fits the 1824-25 revival
|L8=Response to claim: 242, n14 - William Smith said that the revival occurred in 1823
|L9=Response to claim: 242, n15 - Oliver Cowdery said that the revival that affected Joseph came in 1823
|L10=Response to claim: 245 "If his report that "all the sects...united to persecute me" were accurate, one would expect to find some hint of this in the local newspapers"
|L11=Response to claim: 245, n27 - In 1838, Joseph is claimed to have shifted his calling from 1823 to 1820 because of apostasy in the Church
|L12=Response to claim: 246, n31 - Martin Harris is claimed to have publicly stated that "none of the witnesses had physically seen or handled the plates" and that they had not seen them with their "natural eyes"
|L13=Response to claim: 248, n44-45 - The author claims that Joseph wrote his 1838 narrative to secure his position and authority within the church
|L14=Response to claim: 251 - Joseph moved his calling from 1823 to 1820 in order to disassociate himself from "troubling questions" regarding the Book of Mormon witnesses, who had left the Church
|L15=Response to claim: 251-252 - The author claims that Joseph's motive for praying was different in the 1832 account than in the 1838 account
|L16=Response to claim: 252 - The author claims that Joseph "knows that the pure gospel is not on the earth and therefore does not ask which church is right"
|L17=Response to claim: 252 - "During the leadership crisis of April 1838, Joseph remembered a different purpose in going to pray"
|L18=Response to claim: 253, n51 - Joseph is claimed to have "sought membership with the Methodists in Harmony, Pennsylvania" in 1828, well after he was instructed to join no churches in 1820
}}
</onlyinclude>

<!-- ====235, n2 - The author claims that Joseph Smith's First Vision account was "simplified" and "retrofitted" to make it more authoritative====
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
The author claims that Joseph Smith's First Vision account was reworked to make it more authoritative.
|authorsources=<br>
#James B. Allen, "The Significance of Joseph Smith's 'First Vision' in Mormon Thought," ''Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought'' 1 (Autumn 1966): 29-45; rpt. in ''The New Mormon Hisotry: Revisionist Essays on the Past'', ed. D. Michael Quinn, 37-52.
}}
{{:Question: Did Joseph Smith’s account of the First Vision grow more detailed and more colorful after he first recorded it in 1832?}}
-->
==Response to claim: 239 - "The Book of Commandments...contains nothing on such important events as Joseph's first vision"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
{{AuthorQuote|The Book of Commandments...contains nothing on such important events as Joseph's first vision...The earliest allusion, oral or written, to the first vision is the brief mention that was transcribed in June 1830 and originally printed in the Book of Commandments...}}
|authorsources=<br>
*Book of Commandments 24:6
*{{s||D&C|20|5}}
}}
{{misinformation|The author claims that the Book of Commandments "contains nothing" on the First Vision, yet in the subsequent paragraph the author points out that it contains the "earliest allusion" to it.
}}

==Response to claim: 239 - The Book of Commandments states that it was the Book of Mormon that constituted Joseph's call to the work==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
The Book of Commandments states that it was the Book of Mormon that constituted Joseph's call to the work.
|authorsources=<br>
#
}}
*[[First Vision/Accounts/1832/Doesn't mention new dispensation]]	
|authorsources=
#Book of Commandments 24:7-11
*{{s||D&C|20|6-11}}
}}
{{misinformation|The author has misread the source that he cited. The verses quoted from the Book of Commandments talk about the purpose of the Book of Mormon, and how it is to prove "that God doth inspire men and call them to his holy work". It states nothing about what constituted Joseph's "call to the work."
Book of Commandments 24:7-11:
<blockquote>
7 But after truly repenting, God ministered unto him by an holy angel, whose countenance was as lightning, and whose garments were pure and white above all whiteness, and gave unto him commandments which inspired him from on high, and gave unto him power, by the means which were before prepared, that he should translate a book;

8 Which book contained a record of a fallen people, and also the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles;

9 And also to the Jews, proving unto them, that the holy scriptures are true;

10 And also, <span style="color:blue">that God doth inspire men and call them to his holy work,</span> in these last days as well as in days of old, that he might be the same God for ever. Amen.

11 Which book was given by inspiration, and is called the book of Mormon others by the ministering of angels, and declared unto the world by them:, and is confirmed to others by the ministering of angels, and declared unto the world by them:
</blockquote>
}}

==Response to claim: 239, n5 - Oliver Cowdery claimed that it was Moroni that called Joseph to the work rather than Jesus in the First Vision==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
Oliver Cowdery claimed that it was Moroni that called Joseph to the work rather than Jesus in the First Vision.
|authorsources=<br>
#Oliver Cowdery, "Letter IV," ''Latter Day Saints' Messenger and Advocate'' 1 (Feb. 1835): 78-79; quoted in Vogel, ''Early Mormon Documents,'' 2:427-429.	
}}
{{misinformation|The author does not understand the events described in the first two installments of Oliver Cowdery's history of the Church published in the ''Messenger and Advocate'' in 1834 and 1835. The 1834 installment described events leading up the the First Vision. The 1835 installment refers to these events as being in the past, skips mentioning the vision, and skips forward three years to Moroni's visit.
}}
{{:Question: Did Oliver Cowdery state that Joseph did not know if a "supreme being" existed in 1823?}}
{{:Question: What criticisms are related to Oliver Cowdery's 1834-1835 history of the Church?}}

==Response to claim: 239 - Joseph viewed his First Vision in "evangelical Protestant fashion" until 1838 and "viewed his epiphany" in this fashion until 1838==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
Joseph viewed his First Vision in "evangelical Protestant fashion" until 1838 and "viewed his epiphany" in this fashion until 1838.
|authorsources=<br>
#Author's opinion.
}}
{{disinformation|It is odd that the 1835 account is not mentioned here. Here is what the 1835 account says about Joseph's motivation to pray in the grove:
<blockquote>
...respecting the subject of religion and '''looking at the different systems taught the children of men, I knew not who was right or who was wrong''' and I considered it of the first importance that I should be right, in matters that involve eternal consequ[e]nces; being thus perplexed in mind I retired to the silent grove and bow[e]d down before the Lord, under a realising sense that he had said (if the bible be true) ask and you shall receive knock and it shall be opened seek and you shall find and again, if any man lack wisdom let him ask of God who giveth to all men libarally and upbradeth not; information was what I most desired at this time, and with a fixed determination to obtain it, I called upon the Lord for the first time... {{ea}}
</blockquote>
*The motivation in the 1835 account matches that in the 1838 account, yet the author claims that Joseph "viewed his epiphany" in "evangelical Protestant fashion" as a forgiveness for his sins until the 1838 account was written. This is apparently done to support the author's desired conclusion that the 1838 account was written to deal with a leadership crisis in Kirtland.
}}
{{:Question: What was Joseph Smith's motivation for going to the grove to pray in 1820?}}
{{:Question: How do the First Vision account compare on the subject of Joseph's motivation for praying?}}

==Response to claim: 240, n7 - Joseph is claimed to "not yet mention the appearance of God the Father" in his 1835 First Vision account==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
Joseph is claimed to "not yet mention the appearance of God the Father" in his 1835 First Vision account.
|authorsources=<br>
*In footnote 7, the author uses Joseph's 1835 account to claim that his concept of the Godhead had evolved from one personage to two personages.
*Boyd Kirkland, "The Development of the Mormon Doctrine of God," ''Line upon Line: Essays on Mormon Doctrine'', ed. Gary James Bergera, 35-52.
*Dan Vogel, "The Earliest Mormon Concept fo God," ''Line upon Line'', 17-33.
*Melodie Moench Charles, "Book of Mormon Christology," ''New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology'', ed. Brent Lee Metcalfe, 81-114.
}}
{{disinformation|Joseph Smith did not mention "God the Father" by name in ''any'' of his First Vision accounts - he only referred to the Father and the Son as "personages." Here is the relevant passage from [http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Diary_of_Joseph_Smith,_Jr._(1835-1836) Joseph's 1835 First Vision account]:
<blockquote>
...a personage appeard in the midst of this pillar of flame which was spread all around, and yet nothing consumed, another personage soon appeard like unto the first, he said unto me thy sins are forgiven thee, he testified unto me that Jesus Christ is the Son of God;
</blockquote>
Joseph didn't explicitly identify the first personage as God the Father, but it is clear from the context (the second personage identified as Jesus Christ as being "like unto the first") that this is who is being referred to. To claim that Joseph "does not yet mention the appearance of God the Father" is a misrepresentation of this narrative.
}}

==Response to claim: 240 - The author claims that Joseph rewrote his personal conversion experience in 1838 to satisfy institutional needs==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
The author claims that Joseph rewrote his personal conversion experience in 1838 to satisfy institutional needs.
|authorsources=<br>
#Author's opinion.
}}
{{propaganda|This is the author's opinion, and is not supported by evidence.
}}
{{:Question: Did Joseph Smith revise his account of the First Vision in 1838 to respond to a leadership crisis?}}

==Response to claim: 240, n8 - The 1820 revival described by Joseph better fits the 1824-25 revival==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
The 1820 revival described by Joseph better fits the 1824-25 revival.
|authorsources=<br>
*Marvin S. Hill, "The First Vision Controversy: A Critique and Reconciliation," ''Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought'', 15 (Summer 1982), 37-39.
*Wesley P. Walters, "New Light on Mormon Origins from the Palmyra Revival," ''Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought'', 4 (Sprint 1969), 60-67.
}}
{{misinformation|Joseph describes a religious "excitement" in the region in 1820, and states that his interest in religion began when he was twelve years old. This coincides with the 1818 revival.
}}
{{:Question: Did Joseph Smith simply conflate elements of the 1818 and 1824-25 revivals in his story of the First Vision?}}

==Response to claim: 242, n14 - William Smith said that the revival occurred in 1823==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
William Smith said that the revival occurred in 1823.
|authorsources=<br>
*William Smith, interview by James Murdock, 18 April 1841, quoted in Vogel, ''Early Mormon Documents'', 1:478.
*William Smith, ''William Smith on Mormonism'', 6.
*''Saints' Herald'', 16 June 1883, 338; quoted in Vogel, ''Early Mormon Documents'', 1:494.
}}
{{misinformation|William Smith mixes up the events of the First Vision and Moroni's visit, well ''after'' Joseph had published his official account of these events. William even acknowledges that Joseph's published history is more accurate than his own recollection.
}}
{{:Question: Did William Smith claim that a religious revival led to the Joseph's "first vision" of an angel in 1823?}}

==Response to claim: 242, n15 - Oliver Cowdery said that the revival that affected Joseph came in 1823==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
Oliver Cowdery said that the revival that affected Joseph came in 1823.
|authorsources=<br>
*Oliver Cowdery, "Letter III," ''Messenger and Advocate'' 1 (Dec. 1834), 42.
*Oliver Cowdery, "Letter IV," ''Messenger and Advocate'' 1 (Feb. 1835), 78.
}}
{{misinformation|The author does not understand the events described in the first two installments of Oliver Cowdery's history of the Church published in the ''Messenger and Advocate'' in 1834 and 1835. The 1834 installment described events leading up the the First Vision. The 1835 installment refers to these events as being in the past, skips mentioning the vision, and skips forward three years to Moroni's visit.	
}}
{{:Question: Did Oliver Cowdery state that Joseph did not know if a "supreme being" existed in 1823?}}

==Response to claim: 245 "If his report that "all the sects...united to persecute me" were accurate, one would expect to find some hint of this in the local newspapers"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=<br>
*Joseph is claimed to have been persecuted not for his vision, but because of his treasure digging. 
*{{AuthorQuote|If his report that "all the sects...united to persecute me" were accurate, one would expect to find some hint of this in the local newspapers...}}
|authorsources=<br>
#Author's opinion.
}}
{{propaganda|Seriously? The author is suggesting that the local newspapers would report that one or more local ministers criticized a 14-year-old boy for stating that he had a vision of God?	
}}
{{:Question: Why didn't the newspapers in Palmyra take notice of Joseph Smith's First Vision?}}
<!-- ====245, n26====
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title={{check}}
|claim=According to the author, "not even [Joseph's] family remembers [the First Vision]."
}}
*
|authorsources=<br>
#James B. Allen, "Emergence of a Fundamental: The Expanding Role of Joseph Smith's First Vision in Mormon Thought," ''Journal of Mormon History'' 7 (1980), 43-45.
*Hill, "First Vision Controversy," 31-32.
*Joseph Smith&mdash;History 1:22.
}} -->
<!-- ====245====
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title={{check}}
|claim=The author claims that Joseph's vision was similar to other's experiences and no one took notice of it.
}}
|authorsources=<br>
#Author's opinion.
}} -->

==Response to claim: 245, n27 - In 1838, Joseph is claimed to have shifted his calling from 1823 to 1820 because of apostasy in the Church==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
In 1838, Joseph is claimed to have shifted his calling from 1823 to 1820 because of apostasy in the Church.	
|authorsources=<br>
#William I. Appleby, Biography and Journal, 30-31, LDS archives, quoted in Vogel, ''Early Mormon Documents'', 1:145-47.
}}
{{propaganda|Joseph remained in control of the Church even during the 1838 apostasy. There was no need to rewrite history to do so, and there is no evidence that such a thing occurred.
}}
{{:Question: Did Joseph Smith lose control of the Church during the 1838 Kirtland apostasy?}}

==Response to claim: 246, n31 - Martin Harris is claimed to have publicly stated that "none of the witnesses had physically seen or handled the plates" and that they had not seen them with their "natural eyes"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
Martin Harris is claimed to have publicly stated that "none of the witnesses had physically seen or handled the plates" and that they had not seen them with their "natural eyes."
|authorsources=<br>
*Stephen Burnett to Lyman E. Johnson, 15 April 1838, Joseph Smith Letterbook, 2:64-66, quoted in Vogel, ''Early Mormon Documents'', 2:291.
*Warren Parrish to E. Holmes, 11 Aug. 1838, ''The Evangelist'', 1 Oct. 1838, 226.
}}
{{misinformation|The author selectively focuses on a few reported quotes in which Martin mentioned "spiritual eyes," and ignores the multitude of quotes in which Martin said straight out that he saw the angel and handled the plates with his hands. 
}}
{{:Question: Did Martin Harris tell people that he did not see the plates with his natural eyes, but rather the "eye of faith"?}}
{{:Question: Did Martin Harris tell people that he only saw the plates with his "spiritual eye"?}}
{{:Question: Why would Martin Harris use the phrases "eye of faith" or "spiritual eye" to describe his visionary experience?}}
{{:Question: Do Martin Harris's statements related to the "spiritual eye" or "eye of faith" contradict the reality of his witness?}}
{{:Question: What did the Book of Mormon witnesses mean when they used the word "supernatural" to describe their experiences?}}
{{:Question: What did the other witnesses say regarding "spiritual" versus "natural" viewing of the plates?}}
{{:Question: How did newspaper accounts describe the nature of the witnesses experience?}}
{{:Question: How did the apostle Paul describe spiritual experiences?}}

==Response to claim: 248, n44-45 - The author claims that Joseph wrote his 1838 narrative to secure his position and authority within the church==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
The author claims that Joseph wrote his 1838 narrative to secure his position and authority within the church.	
|authorsources=<br>
*Jessee, ''Papers of Joseph Smith'', 2:226-27; 232-33.
*{{s||D&C|115|3-4}}
}}
{{misinformation|Joseph Smith was telling the same First Vision story in 1835, three years before the leadership crisis.
}}
{{:Question: Did Joseph Smith revise his account of the First Vision in 1838 to respond to a leadership crisis?}}

==Response to claim: 251 - Joseph moved his calling from 1823 to 1820 in order to disassociate himself from "troubling questions" regarding the Book of Mormon witnesses, who had left the Church==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
Joseph moved his calling from 1823 to 1820 in order to disassociate himself from "troubling questions" regarding the Book of Mormon witnesses, who had left the Church.
|authorsources=<br>
#Author's conjecture.
}}
{{propaganda|What "troubling questions?" The author doesn't say. If this is the case, then why was the Testimony of the Three and the Testimony of the Eight Witnesses retained in the Book of Mormon? Why did the witnesses hold fast to their testimonies of the Book of Mormon?
}}

==Response to claim: 251-252 - The author claims that Joseph's motive for praying was different in the 1832 account than in the 1838 account==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
The author claims that Joseph's motive for praying was different in the 1832 account than in the 1838 account.
|authorsources=<br>
#Author's opinion.
}}
{{propaganda|Once again, the author fails to deal with the 1835 account, even though he is clearly aware of it and mentions it several times earlier. Why only compare the 1832 and 1838 accounts? Because he is continuing to make the point that the account was modified in ''1838'' due to a leadership crisis.
}}
{{:Question: What was Joseph Smith's motivation for going to the grove to pray in 1820?}}
{{:Question: Did Joseph Smith change his stated motivation for praying in later years?}}
{{:Question: How do the First Vision accounts compare on the subject of Joseph's motivation for praying?}}

==Response to claim: 252 - The author claims that Joseph "knows that the pure gospel is not on the earth and therefore does not ask which church is right"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
In the 1832 account of the First Vision, the author claims that Joseph "knows that the pure gospel is not on the earth and therefore does not ask which church is right."
|authorsources=<br>
#None
}}
{{misinformation|How would Joseph have determined that there was no true "denomination upon the earth" by examining the few churches that he had access to in Palmyra? He may have determined that none of the ones that he was familiar with were true, but how would he know that there wasn't one on the entire earth unless he asked God during his vision?
}}
{{:Question: Did Joseph Smith decide that all churches were wrong before he received the First Vision?}}
{{:Question: How could Joseph Smith come to the conclusion that all churches were wrong on his own?}}

==Response to claim: 252 - "During the leadership crisis of April 1838, Joseph remembered a different purpose in going to pray"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
{{AuthorQuote|During the leadership crisis of April 1838, Joseph remembered a different purpose in going to pray...he now says, 'My object in going to enquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right'.}}
|authorsources=<br>
#No source provided.
}}
{{propaganda|Yet again, the 1835 account (recorded in Joseph's journal) mentioned earlier by the author is not mentioned here. And again, we note in the 1835 account the following:
<blockquote>
...respecting the subject of religion and '''looking at the different systems taught the children of men, I knew not who was right or who was wrong''' and I considered it of the first importance that I should be right, in matters that involve eternal consequ[e]nces;  {{ea}}
</blockquote>
How is it that the author, who mentions the 1835 account earlier in the chapter, ''does not mention Joseph's stated motivation for praying?'' It is simply because it does not fit with his theory that this "change" in motivation recorded in the 1838 account was in response to a leadership crisis.
}}
{{:Question: Did Joseph Smith change his stated motivation for praying in later years?}}

==Response to claim: 253, n51 - Joseph is claimed to have "sought membership with the Methodists in Harmony, Pennsylvania" in 1828, well after he was instructed to join no churches in 1820==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
Joseph is claimed to have "sought membership with the Methodists in Harmony, Pennsylvania" in 1828, well after he was instructed to join no churches in 1820. The footnote claims that Joseph Lewis reported the Joseph "joined the Methodist Episcopal class in Harmony, Pennsylvania in the summer of 1828."
|authorsources=<br>
*Joseph and Hiel Lewis, "Mormon History, A New Chapter about to be Published," ''Amboy Journal'', 30 April 1879, 1.
*"A Word from Utah," ''Amboy Journal'', 2 July 1879, 1.
}}
{{misinformation|Nobody who has charged Joseph Smith with joining a church between 1820 and 1830 has ever produced any authentic denominational membership record that would substantiate such a claim.
}}
{{:Question: Did Joseph Smith join the Methodist, Presbyterian, or Baptist churches between 1820 and 1830 despite the claim made in his 1838 history that he was forbidden by Deity from joining any denomination?}}
{{:Question: Did Joseph Smith become a baptized member of the Baptist Church in 1822?}}
{{:Question: Did Joseph Smith become a member of the Methodist Church while he was translating the Book of Mormon?}}
{{:Questions: Are there contemporary witnesses that confirm that Joseph Smith didn't join any church after the First Vision?}}

{{endnotes sources}}