View source for Criticism of Mormonism/Books/An Insider's View of Mormon Origins/Chapter 3

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{{H1
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/An Insider's View of Mormon Origins/Chapter 3
|H=Response to claims made in "Chapter 3: The Bible in the Book of Mormon"
|T=[[../../|An Insider's View of Mormon Origins]]
|A=Grant Palmer
|<=[[../Chapter 2|Claims made in "Chapter 2: Authorship of the Book of Mormon"]]
|>=[[../Chapter 4|Claims made in "Chapter 4: Evangelical Protestantism in the Book of Mormon"]]
}}
[[File:Chart.insiders.view.chapter 3 bible and BoM.png|center|frame]]
<onlyinclude>
{{H2
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/An Insider's View of Mormon Origins/Index/Chapter 3
|H=Response to claims made in An Insider's View of Mormon Origins, "Chapter 3: The Bible in the Book of Mormon"
|S=
|L1=Response to claim: 70-71, n3 - Joseph Smith Sr.'s 1811 dreams are similar to Lehi's "first" vision and his "tree of life" dream
|L2=Response to claim: 83 - "Cowdery may be the only witness who knew about this, and he neglected to mention it"
|L3=Response to claim: 83, n14 - The Book of Mormon contains twenty-six full chapters from a 1769 edition of the KJV
|L4=Response to claim: 86 - Response to claim: 86 - The author claims that 3 Nephi 17:10-21 was derived from the Bible using passages from Luke 7, John 11 and Mark 10
|L5=Response to claim: 90 - The Aramaic word "raca" would not have been intelligible to a Nephite
|L6=Response to claim: 90 - "Whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain" refers to a Roman law and that it "would presumably have had no meaning in the New World"
|L7=Response to claim: 90 - Three days of darkness occurred in the New World at Christ's death, as opposed to only three hours of darkness in Jerusalem
}}
</onlyinclude>
==Response to claim: 70-71, n3 - Joseph Smith Sr.'s 1811 dreams are similar to Lehi's "first" vision and his "tree of life" dream==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
Joseph Smith Sr.'s 1811 dreams are similar to Lehi's "first" vision and his "tree of life" dream.
|authorsources=<br>
*Lucy Mack Smith, Preliminary Manuscript (MS), "History of Lucy Smith." published in Dan Vogel, ed., ''Early Mormon Documents'', 1:255n52.
*Lucy Mack Smith, ''History of Joseph Smith by His Mother'',46-47 (hereafter History of Joseph Smith). 
*{{s|1|Nephi|1|16}}
*{{s|1|Nephi|11-12|}}
*{{s|1|Nephi|14-15|}}
*{{s|1|Nephi|19-20|}}	
}}
{{information|The dream of Joseph Smith, Sr. was recorded only long after the Book of Mormon was published.
}}
{{:Question: Did Joseph Smith incorporate his father's dream of the tree of life into the Book of Mormon?}}
<!-- ====74-78====
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title={{check}}
|claim=The author claims that there are 20 shared "motifs" between the story of Lehi's journey to the New World a the story of the exodus of the Children of Israel from Egypt.
}}
|authorsources=<br>
#Various scriptural references from the Bible and the Book of Mormon.
}}
====82====
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title={{check}}
|claim=There are no original motifs in 3 Nephi that are not found in the Gospels.
}}
*[[Book of Mormon/Plagiarism accusations/King James Bible]]
}}
====82====
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title={{check}}
|claim=Joseph had the words of Christ available to him, but "curiously chose not to use them" for at least half the verses in 3 Nephi 11-28.
}}
*[[Book of Mormon/Plagiarism accusations/King James Bible]]
}}
====82====
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title={{check}}
|claim=Joseph may have used a blanket to screen his use of the Bible from his scribe.
}}
*[[Book of Mormon/Plagiarism accusations/King James Bible]]	
|authorsources=<br>
#No source provided.
}} -->

==Response to claim: 83 - "Cowdery may be the only witness who knew about this, and he neglected to mention it"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
{{AuthorQuote|Oliver was Joseph's main scribe day after day and perhaps the only one who really knew if a Bible was consulted. Oliver is silent on the matter. In fact, a Bible would have been needed only when quoting long passages; so again, Cowdery may be the only witness who knew about this, and he neglected to mention it.}}
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{propaganda|The author attempts to make Oliver Cowdery a "silent witness" based upon things he ''didn't'' say. The most significant thing about this claim is the ''lack'' of a source.
}}
See: [[../../Use of sources/The silent witness|Use of sources: The silent witness]]
{{:Question: Did Oliver Cowdery "neglect to mention" that Joseph Smith consulted a Bible during the Book of Mormon translation process?}}

==Response to claim: 83, n14 - The Book of Mormon contains twenty-six full chapters from a 1769 edition of the KJV==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
The Book of Mormon contains twenty-six full chapters from a 1769 edition of the KJV.
|authorsources=<br>
*Walters, "Use of the Old Testament." 
*Kenneth D. Jenkins and John L. Hilton, "Common Phrases between the King James Bible and the Book of Mormon," 1983.
}}
{{information|Some of the Book of Mormon Isaiah passages generally match the version of Isaiah found in the Bible of the time, however, not all of them do.
}}
{{:Question: Were the Isaiah passages in the Book of Mormon simply plagiarized from the King James Bible?}}
<!-- ====83, n15====
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title={{check}}
|claim=The Sermon at the Temple includes modern errors found in the KJV.
}}
*[[Book of Mormon/Anachronisms/Translation Errors from the KJV]]
|authorsources=<br>
#Stan Larson, "The Historicity of the Matthean Sermon on the Mount in 3 Nephi," in ''New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology'', ed. Brent Lee Metcalfe, 115-63.
}} -->
<!-- ====85, n18====
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title={{check}}
|claim=A number of anonymous Palmyra residents said that the Book of Mormon was "chiefly garbled from the Old and New Testaments."
}}
|authorsources=<br>
#"Letter from Palmyra, NY," 12 Mar. 1831, Painesville [OH] Telegraph, 22 Mar. 1831, [2]; qtd. in Dan Vogel,ed., ''Early Mormon Documents'', 3:9.
}} -->
<!-- ====85====
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title={{check}}
|claim={{AuthorQuote|It is hard to imagine that these are Christ's unique words to the Nephites, recorded soon after he uttered them and then included on the plates Joseph received.}}
}}
|authorsources=<br>
#Author's opinion.
}} -->

==Response to claim: 86 - The author claims that 3 Nephi 17:10-21 was derived from the Bible using passages from Luke 7, John 11 and Mark 10==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
The author claims that 3 Nephi 17:10-21 was derived from the Bible using passages from Luke 7, John 11 and Mark 10:
<blockquote>
3 Nephi 17
[They did] bow down at his feet,
and did worship him; and as
many as could come for the multitude
did kiss his feet, insomuch
that they did bathe his feet with
their tears ... Jesus groaned
within himself, and said ... I am
troubled ... [H]e wept ... and he
took their little children, one by
one, and blessed them (10, 14,
21).
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
Luke 7, John 11, Mark 10
[She] stood at his feet behind
him weeping, and began to wash
his feet with tears ... and kissed
his feet ... When Jesus therefore
saw her weeping, ... he groaned
in the spirit, and was troubled.
And ... Jesus wept ... And he
took them [children] up in his
arms, put his hands upon them,
and blessed them 
</blockquote>
The author does the same thing when comparing 3 Nephi 18 with Matthew 7 and 1 Cor. 11.
|authorsources=<br>
#{{s|3|Nephi|17|10-21}}
*{{s||Luke|7|38}}
*{{s||John|11|33-35}}
*{{s||Mark|10|16}}
}}
{{propaganda|In order to "prove" that 3 Nephi 17:10-21 was derived from the Bible, the author has to conflate scriptural verses from ''three'' different books in the New Testament!
*Luke 7: 38 And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.
*John 11: 33 When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled,
*John 11: 35 Jesus wept.
*Mark 10: 16 And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.  
}}

==Response to claim: 90 - The Aramaic word "raca" would not have been intelligible to a Nephite==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
The Aramaic word "raca" would not have been intelligible to a Nephite.	
}}
{{propaganda| Since the etymology for the Aramaic word “Raca” is as of yet uncertain, we cannot respond to this in light of current understanding and assuming that the Book of Mormon represents a “tight” translation of the source text. If the translation is tight, one may believe that the word was spoken and understood if Raca has origins to before the time of Lehi’s departure from Jerusalem. Another possibility is that the meaning of the word was explained without a record of it on the plates. 

If we assume that this represents a functional equivalence of the source text, then the word makes perfect sense as an insult used in derision of those perceived as less intelligent and Joseph’s usage of the word would still not be problematic.
}}

==Response to claim: 90 - "Whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain" refers to a Roman law and that it "would presumably have had no meaning in the New World"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
The author claims that Jesus' statement that "Whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain" refers to a Roman law and that it "would presumably have had no meaning in the New World."
|authorsources=<br>
#{{s|3|Nephi|12|41}}
*{{s||Matthew|5|41}}
}}
{{propaganda|Why wouldn't this statement have meaning to someone in the New World? The statement certainly has meaning to us, and we are not Romans either. Why would the inhabitants of the New World not have understood Christ's meaning?
}}

==Response to claim: 90 - Three days of darkness occurred in the New World at Christ's death, as opposed to only three hours of darkness in Jerusalem==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
Three days of darkness occurred in the New World at Christ's death, as opposed to only three hours of darkness in Jerusalem.
|authorsources=<br>
*{{s|3|Nephi|1|18-21}}
*{{s||Matthew|2|2}}
*{{s||Helaman|14|2-5}}
}}
{{information|It is entirely feasible for three days of darkness to occur in one part of the world without it occurring in another.
}}
{{:Question: How is it possible that there were three days of darkness in the New World and not in the Old World?}}
{{endnotes sources}}