View source for Criticism of Mormonism/Books/An Insider's View of Mormon Origins/Chapter 1

{{Main Page}}  
{{H1
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/An Insider's View of Mormon Origins/Chapter 1
|H=Response to claims made in "Chapter 1: Joseph Smith as Translator/Revelator"
|T=[[../../|An Insider's View of Mormon Origins]]
|A=Grant Palmer
|<=
|>=[[../Chapter 2|Claims made in "Chapter 2: Authorship of the Book of Mormon"]]
}}
[[File:Chart.insiders.view.chapter 1 translator.png|center|frame]]
<onlyinclude>
{{H2
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/An Insider's View of Mormon Origins/Index/Chapter 1
|H=Response to claims made in An Insider's View of Mormon Origins, "Chapter 1: Joseph Smith as Translator/Revelator"
|S=
|L1=Response to claim: 1 - Illustrations show Joseph Smith translating the plates directly
|L2=Response to claim: 2 - Joseph Smith used a seer stone that he placed in his hat
|L3=Response to claim: 2-3 - The plates were often not nearby while Joseph translated them
|L4=Response to claim: 6 - It is claimed that Oliver attempted to translate using a divining rod
|L5=Response to claim: 6 - Oliver would ask questions of his divining rod in faith and it would move
|L6=Response to claim: 7 - Alterations in a different handwriting on the 116 pages would have been readily apparent
|L7=Response to claim: 8 - Joseph was brought to court three times for stone gazing
|L8=Response to claim: 9 - Peter Ingersoll reported that he heard Joseph acknowledge to Isaac Hale that he was never able to see anything in his seer stone
|L9=Response to claim: 9 - After he lost the manuscript, Joseph is claimed to have become more vague regarding the method of translation
|L10=Response to claim: 9 - Joseph is claimed to have altered the Book of Mormon to modify the description of God and Jesus to be separate beings
|L11=Response to claim: 10 - It is claimed that scholars have determined that Joseph consulted an open Bible during translation
|L12=Response to claim: 10 - The book claims that Joseph copied errors from the King James Bible
|L13=Response to claim: 11 - The author claims that none of Joseph's changes to the Bible have been supported by manuscript finds
|L14=Response to claim: 12 - Joseph is said to have evolved his concept of the Father and Son
|L15=Response to claim: 12 - The hieroglyphics next to facsimile 1 state that Hor is the deceased man lying on the altar
|L16=Response to claim: 12 - Joseph is claimed to have used this papyrus as his source for Abraham 1 through 2:18
|L17=Response to claim: 13 - Near facsimile 3, Hor's name appears at the top and bottom
|L18=Response to claim: 17 - Joseph is claimed to have expanded Abraham's curse to include denial of priesthood ordination to blacks
|L19=Response to claim: 19 - Joseph's interpretations have been shown by Egyptologists as a mis-reading of the papyri
|L20=Response to claim: 21 - From 1820 to 1834 Joseph is claimed to have believed in one God
|L21=Response to claim: 22-24 - Joseph's theology was said to have been influenced by Thomas Dick's Philosophy of a Future State
|L22=Response to claim: 31 - Joseph claimed to have translated a portion of the Kinderhook plates
|L23=Response to claim: 34-35 - Joseph is claimed to have translated a Greek psalter
}}
</onlyinclude>
==Response to claim: 1 - Illustrations show Joseph Smith translating the plates directly==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
Illustrations show Joseph Smith translating the plates directly.
|authorsources=<br>
#''Ensign'', Dec. 1983, inside cover, 25; Jan. 1988, 4, 9; Nov. 1988, 35, 46; July 1993, 62; Jan. 1997, 38; Aug. 1997, 11; July 1999, 41.
}}
{{information|The illustrations don't even show the Nephite interpreters.
}}
{{:Question: Is the Church trying to hide something through its use of artwork?}}
{{:Question: Why doesn't the art match details which have been repeatedly spelled out in Church publications?}}

==Response to claim: 2 - Joseph Smith used a seer stone that he placed in his hat==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
Joseph Smith used a seer stone that he placed in his hat.
|authorsources=<br>
#Van Wagoner and Walker, "Joseph Smith: 'The Gift of Seeing,'" ''Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought'' 15 (Summer 1982): 50-53.
}}
{{information|This is correct, and is attested to in Church sources.
}}
{{:Question: How did Joseph use his seer stones as a youth?}}
{{:Source:Gardner:Joseph the Seer:2009 FAIR Conference:long before golden plates complicated his position as a local seer}}
{{:Question: Did Joseph place his seer stone in his hat while looking for lost objects?}}

==Response to claim: 2-3 - The plates were often not nearby while Joseph translated them==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
The plates were often not nearby while Joseph translated them.
|authorsources=<br>
*Joseph Smith III, "Last Testimony of Sister Emma," ''Saints' Herald'', 1 Oct. 1879, 290; Howe, "Affidavit of Isaac Hale", ''Mormonism Unvailed'', 265; 
*Martin Harris, interview by John A. Clark, 1828, in The Episcopal Recorder (Philadelphia), 5 Sept. 1840, 94; quoted in Vogel, ''Early Mormon Documents'', 2:266; 
*Joseph Smith Sr., interview by Fayette Lapham quoted in Vogel, ''Early Mormon Documents'', 1:464.
}}
{{information|This is correct. The plates did not need to be in front of Joseph while he translated.
}}
{{:Question: Why were the gold plates needed at all if they weren't used directly during the translation process?}}

==Response to claim: 6 - It is claimed that Oliver attempted to translate using a divining rod==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
It is claimed that Oliver attempted to translate using a divining rod.
|authorsources=<br>
#{{s||D&C|8|6-8}}; Book of Commandments 7:3. 
}}
{{information|This may be true, as confirmed by Church sources.
}}
{{:Source:Revelations in Context on history.lds.org:Oliver Cowdery's Gift:Cowdery was among those who believed in and used a divining rod}}
{{:Question: What if the "rod of nature" was indeed a physical object such as a divining rod?}}
{{:Source:Oaks:Recent Events Involving Church History and Forged Documents:Ensign:October 1987:tools as the Urim and Thummim, the Liahona, seerstones, and other articles have been used appropriately}}
{{:Source:Gospel Topics:Book of Mormon Translation:the Bible mentions other physical instruments used to access God’s power: the rod of Aaron, a brass serpent, holy anointing oils, the Ark of the Covenant, and even dirt from the ground mixed with saliva}}

==Response to claim: 6 - Oliver would ask questions of his divining rod in faith and it would move==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
Oliver would ask questions of his divining rod in faith and it would move.
|authorsources=<br>
#"Barnes Frisbie account" quoted in Vogel, ''Early Mormon Documents'', 1:603-05, 619-20.
}}
{{information|This may be correct, as confirmed by Church sources.
}}
{{:Source:Revelations in Context on history.lds.org:Oliver Cowdery's Gift:Cowdery was among those who believed in and used a divining rod}}

==Response to claim: 7 - Alterations in a different handwriting on the 116 pages would have been readily apparent==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
Alterations in a different handwriting on the 116 pages would have been readily apparent.
|authorsources=<br>
#No source provided.	
}}
{{misinformation|It is ''assumed'' that the only way that someone could alter the text would be to attempt to alter the handwriting. All they really had to do was publish their version of the text. It is likely that Lucy Harris burned the manuscript before anyone had a chance to do that.
}}
{{:Question: Would alterations in a different handwriting to the stolen 116 pages of Book of Mormon manuscript have been readily apparent?}}

==Response to claim: 8 - Joseph was brought to court three times for stone gazing==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
Joseph was brought to court three times for stone gazing.
|authorsources=<br>
#Marquardt and Walters, ''Inventing Mormonism: Tradition and the Historical Record'', 70-75, 174-78.
}}
{{misinformation|The author fails to note that Joseph was acquitted each and every time, and that these three court appearances were all related to related to the same original incident with Josiah Stowell. Initially, Joseph appeared before a judge in 1826 after having been charged by relatives of Josiah Stowell, who had hired Joseph to help him located a lost mine. Stowell's relatives thought that Joseph was defrauding Josiah, however, Joseph was ultimately released and the matter never went to trial. Four years later, on July 1, 1030, ''after'' the Book of Mormon was published, Joseph was again charged and brought before a judge. During this trial, according to one hostile witness, "it was shown that the Book of Mormon was brought to light by the same magic power by which he pretended to tell fortunes, discover hidden treasures." Josiah Stowell was questioned in an attempt to implicate Joseph. However, Joseph was found "not guilty" and released. Joseph was then brought before the court again on a similar charge to that made the original 1826 court appearance the very next day. Joseph was acquitted due to the statute of limitations, since four years had passed. When Joseph stepped out of court, he was served a warrant to appear in court in a different county. This charge was also ultimately dismissed.
}}
{{:Question: What is Joseph Smith's 1826 Bainbridge "trial" for "glasslooking"?}}
{{:Question: What events resulted in Joseph Smith's 1826 court appearance in Bainbridge?}}

==Response to claim: 9 - Peter Ingersoll reported that he heard Joseph acknowledge to Isaac Hale that he was never able to see anything in his seer stone==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
Peter Ingersoll reported that he heard Joseph acknowledge to Isaac Hale that he was never able to see anything in his seer stone.
|authorsources=<br>
#"Affidavit of Peter Ingersoll", {{CriticalWork:Howe:Mormonism Unvailed}}
}}
{{propaganda|This is a third-hand account from another hostile source. Peter Ingersoll (who was hostile), reported that Emma's father Isaac Hale (who was also hostile to "money digging" and the use of seer stones), is said to have reported that Joseph Smith admitted that he really couldn't see anything using the stone.
}}
{{:Question: What did Peter Ingersoll claim about Joseph Smith in the Hurlbut affidavits?}}

==Response to claim: 9 - After he lost the manuscript, Joseph is claimed to have become more vague regarding the method of translation==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
After he lost the manuscript, Joseph is claimed to have become more vague regarding the method of translation.
|authorsources=<br>
#No source provided.	
}}
{{propaganda|Joseph only said that the translation was accomplished by the "gift and power of God." He never went into specifics, either before or after the loss of the manuscript.
}}
{{:Question: How exactly did Joseph Smith translate the gold plates?}}

==Response to claim: 9 - Joseph is claimed to have altered the Book of Mormon to modify the description of God and Jesus to be separate beings==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
Joseph is claimed to have altered the Book of Mormon to modify the description of God and Jesus to be separate beings.
|authorsources=<br>
*{{s|1|Nephi|11|16}}
*{{s|1|Nephi|11|18}}
*{{s|1|Nephi|11|21}}
*{{s|1|Nephi|13|40}}	
}}
{{misinformation|The theory put forth by critics is that Joseph altered the Book of Mormon to match his changing view of the Godhead. However, it is simply illogical to conclude that Joseph Smith changed only the four passages in 1 Nephi to conform to his supposed changing theological beliefs, but somehow forgot to change all the others.
}}
{{:Question: Did Joseph began his prophetic career with a "trinitarian" idea of God?}}

==Response to claim: 10 - It is claimed that scholars have determined that Joseph consulted an open Bible during translation==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
It is claimed that scholars have determined that Joseph consulted an open Bible during translation.
|authorsources=<br>
#No source provided.
}}
{{misinformation|Although some Latter-day Saint scholars believe that Joseph consulted a Bible when he came to passages in the Book of Mormon which were essentially the same as those in the King James Bible, the fact that Joseph performed most of the dictation in the open using the stone and the hat seems to contradict this idea. Joseph was never observed consulting any books during the translation, which was observed by many people.
}}
{{:Question: Does the Book of Mormon plagiarize the King James Bible?}}
{{:Question: Were the Isaiah passages in the Book of Mormon simply plagiarized from the King James Bible?}}

==Response to claim: 10 - The book claims that Joseph copied errors from the King James Bible==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
The book claims that Joseph copied errors from the King James Bible.
|authorsources=<br>
#No source provided.
}}
{{misinformation|Some of the Book of Mormon Isaiah passages generally match the version of Isaiah found in the Bible of the time, however, not all of them do. Yet, none of the witnesses to the translation process ever saw a Bible consulted. The translation was performed in the open.
}}
{{:Question: If the Book of Mormon is an accurate translation, why would it contain translational errors that exist in the King James Bible?}}

==Response to claim: 11 - The author claims that none of Joseph's changes to the Bible have been supported by manuscript finds==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
The author claims that none of Joseph's changes to the Bible have been supported by manuscript finds.	
|authorsources=<br>
#No source provided.
}}
{{misinformation|Joseph Smith's Bible "translation" is not intended to be a restoration of original Biblical text.
}}
{{:Question: If the Joseph Smith Translation (JST) is Joseph Smith's 'correction' of Biblical errors, why do these corrections not match known Biblical manuscripts?}}

<!-- ==Response to claim: 11 - Some of Joseph's changes to the Bible are claimed to contradict LDS beliefs====
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
*Some of Joseph's changes to the Bible are claimed to contradict LDS beliefs	
|authorsources=<br>
#No source provided.
}} -->

==Response to claim: 12 - Joseph is said to have evolved his concept of the Father and Son==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
Joseph is said to have evolved his concept of the Father and Son.
|authorsources=<br>
#No source provided.
}}
{{misinformation|The theory put forth by critics is that Joseph altered the Book of Mormon to match his changing view of the Godhead. However, it is simply illogical to conclude that Joseph Smith changed only the four passages in 1 Nephi to conform to his supposed changing theological beliefs, but somehow forgot to change all the others.
}}
{{:Question: Did Joseph began his prophetic career with a "trinitarian" idea of God?}}

==Response to claim: 12 - The hieroglyphics next to facsimile 1 state that Hor is the deceased man lying on the altar==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
The hieroglyphics next to facsimile 1 state that Hor is the deceased man lying on the altar.
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{misinformation|It is correct that the scroll refers to Hor, however, the figure on the "lion couch" (not altar) in Facsimile 1 is not "deceased." The fact that the figure is clothed, is wearing anklets and has his arms and legs upraised indicates that he is alive. Lion couch scenes such as this one typically depict a resurrection of the deceased.
}}
{{:Question: What does the lion couch scene normally represent?}}
{{:Question: Is Joseph Smith papyri Facsimile 1 common and similar to other such scenes?}}

==Response to claim: 12 - Joseph is claimed to have used this papyrus as his source for Abraham 1 through 2:18==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
Joseph is claimed to have used this papyrus as his source for Abraham 1 through 2:18.
|authorsources=<br>
#Klaus Baer, "The Breathing Permit of Hor: A Translation of the Apparent Source of the Book of Abraham," ''Dialogue'' 3 (Automn 1968): 109-34.
}}
{{misinformation|The author is assuming that Joseph "used this papyrus as his source for Abraham 1 through 2:18," however, the only relationship between the papyri and the Book of Abraham is Facsimile 1. The source of the idea that Joseph used the papyri as source material for the Book of Abraham typical comes from the Kirtland Egyptian Papers, which match some of the characters in the papyri to entire paragraphs of text from the Book of Abraham. However, the KEP appears to have been created ''after'' the Book of Abraham was produced as a way to "reverse engineer" the Egyptian language.
}}
{{:Source:Gospel Topics:Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham:Mormon and non-Mormon Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham}}
{{:Question: What is the relationship of the Joseph Smith Papyri to the Book of Abraham?}}
{{:Source:Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham:Gospel Topics:Some evidence suggests that Joseph studied the characters on the Egyptian papyri and attempted to learn the Egyptian language}}
{{:Question: What are the Kirtland Egyptian Papers?}}

==Response to claim: 13 - Near facsimile 3, Hor's name appears at the top and bottom==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
Near facsimile 3, Hor's name appears at the top and bottom.
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{information|This is correct.
}}
{{:Question: What are the criticisms related to Facsimile 3?}}
{{:Question: What is the correct interpretation of Facsimile 3?}}
{{:Question: What have been the responses to Joseph's interpretations of Facsimile 3?}}
{{:Question: Are there any known parallels between elements of Joseph's interpretation of Facsimile 3 with other ancient texts?}}
{{:Question: What are the criticisms regarding Joseph's interpretation of specific textual elements of Facsimile 3?}}

==Response to claim: 17 - Joseph is claimed to have expanded Abraham's curse to include denial of priesthood ordination to blacks==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
Joseph is claimed to have expanded Abraham's curse to include denial of priesthood ordination to blacks.
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{disinformation|There is no evidence of this. In fact, Joseph ordained several black men to the priesthood.
}}
{{:Source:Gospel Topics:Race and the Priesthood:During the first two decades of the Church’s existence, a few black men were ordained to the priesthood}}
{{:Question: What do we know about the origin of the priesthood ban on Church members of African descent?}}
{{:Question: Did Joseph Smith confer the priesthood on several black men?}}
{{:Question: Why did Brigham Young initiate the priesthood ban?}}

<!-- ====17====
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
*Joseph is claimed to have gotten the story for the Book of Abraham from Josephus.
|authorsources=<br>
#
}}
*[[Book of Abraham/Plagiarism accusations]]{{nw}}
|authorsources=<br>
#
}} -->

==Response to claim: 19 - Joseph's interpretations have been shown by Egyptologists as a mis-reading of the papyri==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
Joseph's interpretations have been shown by Egyptologists as a mis-reading of the papyri.
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{information|It has been well-known for years that the extant fragments of the Joseph Smith Papyri do not talk about Abraham. The Church published this in the ''Improvement Era'' in 1968.
}}
{{:Question: Was the Church forthright in identifying the rediscovered papyrus prior to their examination by non-LDS Egyptologists?}}
{{:Source:Improvement Era:January 1968:Often the funerary texts contained passages from the "Book of the Dead," a book that was to assist in the safe passage of the dead person into the spirit world}}
{{:Question: What did the Church announce in 1968 when the Joseph Smith papyri fragments were discovered?}}
{{:Question: How long did the Church know about the papyri before they published information about them?}}

<!-- ====19====
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
*The book claims that a primary source for much of Abraham is Genesis.
|authorsources=<br>
#
}}
*[[Book of Abraham/Plagiarism accusations]]{{nw}}
|authorsources=<br>
#	
}} -->

==Response to claim: 21 - From 1820 to 1834 Joseph is claimed to have believed in one God==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
From 1820 to 1834 Joseph is claimed to have believed in one God.
|authorsources=<br>
#	
}}
{{disinformation|This is incorrect.
}}
{{:Question: Did Joseph began his prophetic career with a "trinitarian" idea of God?}}

<!-- ==Response to claim: 21 - The astronomical concepts in Abraham were common in Joseph Smith's environment==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
The astronomical concepts in Abraham were common in Joseph Smith's environment	
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{:Book of Abraham/Astronomy}} -->

==Response to claim: 22-24 - Joseph's theology was said to have been influenced by Thomas Dick's ''Philosophy of a Future State''==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
Joseph's theology was said to have been influenced by Thomas Dick's ''Philosophy of a Future State''.
|authorsources=<br>
#	
}}
{{propaganda|Joseph owned the book, but there is no evidence that it was used in the dictation of the Book of Abraham. Critics of the Church try to infer a connection without any evidence. There is, in fact, evidence of contrasting views.
}}
{{:Question: Could Joseph Smith's theology as described in the Book of Abraham have been influenced by Thomas Dick's book The Philosophy of a Future State?}}

<!-- ====29====
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
*It is claimed that it is easy to identify the Book of Joseph from the papyrus fragments.
|authorsources=<br>
#
}}
*[[Book of Abraham/Joseph Smith Papyri]]
|authorsources=<br>
#
}} -->

==Response to claim: 31 - Joseph claimed to have translated a portion of the Kinderhook plates==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
Joseph claimed to have translated a portion of the Kinderhook plates
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{information|Joseph claimed to have translated a portion of the plates, and he appears to have done so manually, without relying upon revelation.
}}
{{:Question: What are the Kinderhook Plates?}}
{{:Question: Did Joseph Smith attempt to translate the Kinderhook Plates?}}
{{:Question: Did Joseph attempt to translate the Kinderhook Plates using the "gift and power of God?"}}
{{:Question: What does Joseph's attempt to translate the Kinderhook Plates tell us about his "gift of translation?"}}

==Response to claim: 34-35 - Joseph is claimed to have translated a Greek psalter==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
Joseph is claimed to have translated a Greek psalter.
|authorsources=<br>
#	
}}
{{propaganda|The only source that we have for this is a hostile one, with plenty of inconsistencies, and there was no translation produced.
}}
{{:Question: Did Joseph Smith misidentify a Greek "psalter" as a containing "reformed Egyptian" hieroglyphics?}}

<!-- ====36====
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
|claim=
*Joseph is claimed to have mistranslated a number of documents.
|authorsources=<br>
#
}}
*[[Joseph Smith/Translator]]
|authorsources=<br>
#
}} -->
{{endnotes sources}}