View source for Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Chapter 17

{{FairMormon}} 
{{H1
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Chapter 17
|H=Response to claims made in "Chapter 17: Is Mormonism Christian"
|T=[[../../|One Nation Under Gods]]
|A=Richard Abanes
|<=[[../Chapter 16|Claims made in "Chapter 16: Mormon Racism: Black Is Not Beautiful"]]
|>=[[../Chapter 18|Claims made in "Chapter 18: Cover-Ups, Conspiracies, and Controversies"]]
}}
{{ChartOneNationUnderGodsChapter17}}	
<onlyinclude>
{{H2
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Chapter 17
|H=Response to claims made in One Nation Under Gods, "Chapter 17: Is Mormonism Christian"
|S=
|L1=Response to claim: 375 epigraph (PB) - Gordon B. Hinckley is listed as "President, Mormon Church"
|L2=Response to claim: 375, n3 (PB) - The author presents his second significant reason that people join the Church as "the long-held Mormon notion that Latter-day Saints are innately better than non-Mormons"
|L3=Response to claim: 376 (PB) - Early LDS leaders took a "staunchly anti-Christian stance"
|L4=Response to claim: 377, n8(PB) - Did Joseph actually say that all the churches of Christendom "were all wrong" and that Christian ministers "were all corrupt"?
|L5=Response to claim: 377 (PB) - The author asserts that Joseph claimed that all other churches were founded by Satan and part of the "satanic world system"
|L6=Response to claim: 377, 600n11-14 (PB) - Did LDS leaders spend 150 years calling Christians "derogatory names" and insulting them?
|L7=Response to claim: 378, 601n18-21 (PB) - The book presents a table contrasting "Mormon Beliefs About Jesus" with "Christian Beliefs About Jesus"
|L8=Response to claim: 379 601n22(PB) - Did President Hinckley actually "confess" that Latter-day Saint do not believe in the same 'Jesus' in which non-LDS Christians believe?
|L9=Response to claim: 379-380 603n23 (HB) 601n23 (PB) - Did Bruce R. McConkie discourage people from attempting to form a "personal relationship" with Christ?
|L10=Response to claim: 380 - Is the "LDS teaching" that there exists more than one god refuted by the Bible?
|L11=Response to claim: 380 - If the Bible says that "God will share His glory with no one," then how could one hope to become like Him?
|L12=Response to claim: 380, 603n25 (HB) 601n25 (PB) - Paul said in the Bible that "the natural (or physical) comes first, then comes the spiritual." Why then, did Brigham Young say that people are "made first spiritual, and afterwards temporal"?
|L13=Response to claim: 381, 603n26 (HB) 601n26 (PB) - "The Christian gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus...The Latter-day Saint gospel...'evolution of man until he shall become a god'"
|L14=Response to claim: 383, 601n29 - The author claims that Latter-day Saints dismiss the Bible's teachings "whenever they contradict official LDS beliefs"
|L15=Response to claim: 383-4, 601n31 - Did 19th century LDS leaders repeatedly condemn the Bible?
|L16=Response to claim: 385 - Did the Church present itself as a "Christian organization" only by restricting accurate information about LDS beliefs?
|L17=Response to claim: 385, 601n37-38 - The author claims that a "faithful Mormon" was excommunicated for "accurately" explaining "Mormon doctrines and history"
|L18=Response to claim: 388 - Did Gordon B. Hinckely answer questions about LDS doctrine evasively?
|L19=Response to claim: 389 - "The masking of Mormonism has continued unabated...Mormonism's smoke-screen of words has served to greatly confuse observers..."
|L20=Response to claim: 391, n53 - The author claims that Latter-day Saints attempted to "infiltrate" Christian churches in order to convert entire congregations
|L21=Response to claim: 393-400 - Is the LDS Church really a "cult"?
|L22=Response to claim: 400 - The author states that LDS leaders will have to "completely sever its ties with Christianity" in order not to be called a "cult" and gain "legitimacy"
}}
</onlyinclude>		

==Response to claim: 375 epigraph (PB) - Gordon B. Hinckley is listed as "President, Mormon Church"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
Gordon B. Hinckley is listed as "President, Mormon Church"
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{disinformation|There is no church called the "Mormon Church." Perhaps in this epigraph to a chapter entitled "Is Mormonism Christian?", the author wished to avoid stating the true name of the Church: The Church of '''Jesus Christ''' of Latter-day Saints?
}}

==Response to claim: 375, n3 (PB) - The author presents his second significant reason that people join the Church as "the long-held Mormon notion that Latter-day Saints are innately better than non-Mormons"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
The author presents his second significant reason that people join the Church as "the long-held Mormon notion that Latter-day Saints are innately better than non-Mormons."
|authorsources=<br>
#Joseph Fielding Smith, ''Doctrines of Salvation'', vol. 1, 236.
}}
{{disinformation|This claim actually originated with the Tanners. The author also quotes the Tanner's primary source. See: {{CriticalWork:Tanner:Changing World|pages=27}}. 
*Unsurprisingly, there is no mention of gaining a testimony of the Book of Mormon mentioned among the many reasons the author presents for joining the Church&mdash;the reason most Latter-day Saints ''themselves'' would give.
}}
{{:Question: Are Latter-day Saints taught to look down upon or reject those who are not of their faith?}}

<!-- ====376 (PB)====
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title={{check}}
|claim=Does the Church have, as the book claims, a "standard practice" of "not disclosing controversial doctrines?"
}}
*[[../Loaded and prejudicial language]]
|authorsources=<br>
#No source provided.
}} -->

==Response to claim: 376 (PB) - Early LDS leaders took a "staunchly anti-Christian stance"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
Early LDS leaders took a "staunchly anti-Christian stance"
|authorsources=<br>
#No source provided.
}}
{{misinformation|Much of the persecution suffered by early members of the Church came at the hands of those who called themselves "Christians."
}}
{{:Question: Did early Mormon leaders consider themselves Christians?}}
{{:Question: Did LDS leaders claim that Christians were no longer present on the earth after the apostasy?}}
{{:Question: Did Latter-day Saints wish to avoid being classified as Christians?}}
{{:Question: What did early Mormon leaders think of Christians?}}

==Response to claim: 377, n8(PB) - Did Joseph actually say that all the ''churches'' of Christendom "were all wrong" and that ''Christian ministers'' "were all corrupt"?==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
Did Joseph actually say that all the ''churches'' of Christendom "were all wrong" and that ''Christian ministers'' "were all corrupt"?
|authorsources=<br>
#''Pearl of Great Price'', Joseph Smith History 1:19
}}
{{misinformation|Latter-day Saints believe that as a result of that institutional apostasy, present-day Christians are the victims, not perpetrators of it.
}}
{{CrossRef:Abanes:Becoming Gods|pages=26}}
{{:Question: Do Latter-day Saints believe that no genuine Christians exist outside of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?}}

==Response to claim: 377 (PB) - The author asserts that Joseph claimed that all other churches were founded by Satan and part of the "satanic world system"====
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
The author asserts that Joseph claimed that all other churches were founded by Satan and part of the "satanic world system"
|authorsources=<br>
#{{s|1|Nephi|13|6}}
}}
{{propaganda|This claim is nonsense.
}}
*[[../Loaded and prejudicial language|Loaded and prejudicial language]]
{{:Question: Do Latter-day Saints believe that the scriptural terms "church of the devil," the "great and abominable church," and the "whore of all the earth" refer to a specific religion?}}

==Response to claim: 377, 600n11-14 (PB) - Did LDS leaders spend 150 years calling Christians "derogatory names" and insulting them?==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
Did LDS leaders spend 150 years calling Christians "derogatory names" and insulting them?
|authorsources=<br>
#<br>
*Brigham Young, [http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Journal_of_Discourses/Volume_10/Our_Relationship_and_Duty_to_God_and_His_Kingdom,_etc. ''Journal of Discourses'', vol. 10, 265].
*Heber C. Kimball, [http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Journal_of_Discourses/Volume_5/Oneness_of_the_Priesthood,_etc. ''Journal of Discourses'' 5:89].
*Orson Pratt, ''The Kingdom of God&mdash;Part 1'', no. 2, October 31, 1848, 3. Reprinted in Orson Pratt, ''Orson Pratt's Works'', vol. 2
*Kent P. Jackson, "Early Signs of the Apostasy," ''Ensign'', December 1984, 9.
}}
{{propaganda|The irony is thick with this claim, as one reads how the author describes Mormons.
}}
{{:Question: Did Latter-day Saints wish to avoid being classified as Christians?}}

==Response to claim: 378, 601n18-21 (PB) - The book presents a table contrasting "Mormon Beliefs About Jesus" with "Christian Beliefs About Jesus"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
The book presents a table contrasting "Mormon Beliefs About Jesus" with "Christian Beliefs About Jesus."
|authorsources=<br>
#<br>
*Joseph Fielding Smith, vol. 1, 130 and Ezra Taft Benson, ''Teaching of Ezra Taft Benson'', 14. Quoted in "Gethsemane Was Site of "Greatest Single Act," ''Church News'', June 1, 1991, 14.
*Joseph Fielding Smith, vol. 1, 188.
*{{b|1|Peter|2|24}}, {{b||Colossians|1|20}}, {{b||Romans|5|8-9}}, {{b|2|Corinthians|5|17-20}}, {{b||Hebrews|10|12}}
}}
{{propaganda|This is simply an effort to deny Latter-day Saint their Christianity.
}}
{{:Question: Do Latter-day Saints believe in a "different" Jesus than "mainstream" Christians?}}

==Response to claim: 379 601n22(PB) - Did President Hinckley actually "confess" that Latter-day Saint do ''not'' believe in the same 'Jesus' in which non-LDS Christians believe?==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
Did President Hinckley actually "confess" that Latter-day Saint do ''not'' believe in the same 'Jesus' in which non-LDS Christians believe?
|authorsources=<br>
#Gordon B. Hinckley. Quoted in "[http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles/31188/Crown-of-gospel-is-upon-our-heads.html Crown of Gospel is Upon Our Heads]," ''LDS Church News'', June 20, 1998, 7.
}}
{{misinformation|This was no "confession"&mdash;President Hinckley was bearing testimony of Christ.
}}
{{:Question: Did Gordon B. Hinckley say that Latter-day Saints do not worship the biblical Jesus?}}

==Response to claim: 379-380 603n23 (HB) 601n23 (PB) - Did Bruce R. McConkie discourage people from attempting to form a "personal relationship" with Christ?==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
Did Bruce R. McConkie discourage people from attempting to form a "personal relationship" with Christ?
McConkie said:
<blockquote>
"You have never heard one of the First Presidency or the Twelve...advocate this excessive zeal that calls for gaining a so-called special and personal relationship with Christ..."
</blockquote>
|authorsources=<br>
#Bruce R. McConkie, [http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6843 "Our Relationship with the Lord]," BYU Speech, March 2 1982.
}}
{{misinformation|The author has misrepresented Elder McConkie's statement.
}}
{{:Question: Did Bruce R. McConkie discourage people from attempting to form a "personal relationship" with Christ?}}

==Response to claim: 380 - Is the "LDS teaching" that there exists more than one god refuted by the Bible?==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
Is the "LDS teaching" that there exists more than one god refuted by the Bible?
|authorsources=<br>
#<br>
*{{b||Isaiah|43|10}}
*{{b||Isaiah|44|8}}
}}
{{misinformation|[[%22No_God_beside_me%22|Isaiah 43-46]] have been misinterpreted by the author in this context.
}}
{{:Question: Are Mormons polytheists because they don't accept the Nicene Creed?}} 
{{:Source:Webb:BYUS:2011:9:Mormon trinitarian views are not polytheistic}}
{{:Source:Webb:BYUS:2011:12:Mormons are not Arians}}
{{:Source:Webb:BYUS:2011:19:Vastness of Joseph Smith's theology - it is not pagan‎}}
{{:Source:Webb:BYUS:2011:21:Joseph Smith's theosis does not supplant God or veer into polytheism}}
{{:Question: Are Christians monotheists?}}

==Response to claim: 380 - If the Bible says that "God will share His glory with no one," then how could one hope to become like Him?==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
If the Bible says that "God will share His glory with no one," then how could one hope to become like Him?
}}
{{misinformation|These verses say God will not ''give'' his glory to another.  That is, God will not cease to be God or decline in glory.  But, the scriptures are clear that God will ''share'' his glory with others: "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne" ({{b||Revelation|3|21}}). 
|authorsources=<br>
#{{b||Isaiah|42|8}}
*{{b||Isaiah|48|10-11}}
}}
*[[Nature of God/Deification of man]]

==Response to claim: 380, 603n25 (HB) 601n25 (PB) - Paul said in the Bible that "the natural (or physical) comes first, then comes the spiritual." Why then, did Brigham Young say that people are "made first spiritual, and afterwards temporal"?==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
Paul said in the Bible that "the natural (or physical) comes first, then comes the spiritual." Why then, did Brigham Young say that people are "made first spiritual, and afterwards temporal"?
}}
{{misinformation|The verse in Paul is speaking of the resurrection, not pre-mortal life.
|authorsources=<br>
#{{JDfairwiki|author=Brigham Young|disc=8|vol=1|start=50}}.
*{{b||Zechariah|12|1}}
}}
*[[Plan of salvation/Premortal existence]]
*[[../Use of sources/Natural before spiritual|Use of sources: Natural before spiritual body?]]

==Response to claim: 381, 603n26 (HB) 601n26 (PB) - "The Christian gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus...The Latter-day Saint gospel...'evolution of man until he shall become a god'"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
The author states: "The Christian gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus (1 Cor. 15:1-4)." The Latter-day Saint gospel, by contrast is represented by a statement by George Q. Cannon, who said to have claimed that LDS believe that "evolution of man until he shall become a god" is "the Gospel of Jesus Christ, believed in by the Latter-day Saints."
}}
{{propaganda|It is absurd to imply that the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ is not central to Latter-day Saint belief.
|authorsources=<br>
#George Q. Cannon, ''Gospel Truth'', vol. 1, 9.
}}
*[[../Absurd claims|Absurd claims]]
*[[Nature of God/Deification of man]]

==Response to claim: 383, 601n29 - The author claims that Latter-day Saints dismiss the Bible's teachings "whenever they contradict official LDS beliefs"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
The author claims that Latter-day Saints dismiss the Bible's teachings "whenever they contradict official LDS beliefs"
}}
{{misinformation|Elder McConkie wrote simply that "The Church uses the King James Version of the Bible, but acceptance of the Bible is coupled with a reservation that it is true only insofar as translated correctly."  Thus, the Bible is scripture, but if the translation or transmission of the text has been corrupted, why ought one to accept it? Latter-day Saints may have a different ''interpretation'' of the Bible than the author, or his brand of Christianity.  What makes his interpretation valid and another invalid?  No two Christian denominations believe in all the same biblical readings.
|authorsources=<br>
#Bruce R. McConkie, ''Mormon Doctrine'', 764.
}}
* [[Mormonism and the Bible/Inerrancy]]
* [[Mormonism and the Bible/Textual criticism]]
* [[Mormonism and the Bible/Completeness|Bible complete and sufficient?/''Sola scriptura'']]

==Response to claim: 383-4, 601n31 - Did 19th century LDS leaders repeatedly condemn the Bible?==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
Did 19th century LDS leaders repeatedly condemn the Bible?
}}
{{misinformation|Leaders did not "condemn the Bible," but (as the title of Elder Pratt's work shows) argued that the divided state of Christendom was ample testimony that the Bible alone did not seem ''sufficient'' to settle all doctrinal arguments and difficulties.  It is difficult to question this, with various Christian sects which continue to proliferate.
|authorsources=<br>
#Orson Pratt, "The Bible and Tradition, without Further Revelation, an Insufficient Guide," Divine Authenticity fo the Book of Mormon&mdash;No. 3," December 1, 1850, 47. Reprinted in Orson Pratt, ''Orson Pratt's Works'', vol. 2.
}}
* [[../Use of sources/Orson Pratt condemns the Bible|Use of sources: Orson Pratt condemns the Bible?]]
* [[Mormonism and the Bible/Completeness|Bible complete and sufficient? / ''Sola scriptura'']]

==Response to claim: 385 - Did the Church present itself as a "Christian organization" only by restricting accurate information about LDS beliefs?==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
Did the Church present itself as a "Christian organization" only by restricing accurate information about LDS beliefs?
|authorsources=<br>
#Author's opinion
}}
{{disinformation|The irony is thick when ''this'' book complains about the "dissemination of incomplete and deceptive information."
}}
*[[../Loaded and prejudicial language|Loaded and prejudicial language]]
{{:Question: Did Mormons only recently claim to be Christian?}}

==Response to claim: 385, 601n37-38 - The author claims that a "faithful Mormon" was excommunicated for "accurately" explaining "Mormon doctrines and history"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
The author claims that a "faithful Mormon" was excommunicated for "accurately" explaining "Mormon doctrines and history." Did the Church respond that such information had to be suppressed so that the Church could become more "mainstream" Christian?
}}
{{propaganda|This claim is absurd&mdash;The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not "trying to become a mainstream Christian church."
|authorsources=<br>
#T. LaMar Sleight, letter to Michael Barrett. Quoted in Bill McKeever, "Excommunicated for Publicly Discussing Mormon Doctrine?", ''Mormonism Researched'' (Summer 1994), 3.
}}
*[[Jesus Christ/Latter-day Saints aren't Christians#Saints_claim_to_be_Christian_only_recently.3F|LDS only recently claim to be Christian?]]
*[[../Absurd claims|Absurd claims]]
*[[../Loaded and prejudicial language|Loaded and prejudicial language]]

==Response to claim: 388 - Did Gordon B. Hinckely answer questions about LDS doctrine evasively?==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
Did Gordon B. Hinckely answer questions about LDS doctrine evasively?
|authorsources=<br>
#No source provided.
}}
{{propaganda|This is simply the author's opinion.
}}
{{:Question: What was Gordon B. Hinckley's opinion about the King Follett Discourse?}}
{{:Question: Why does '''TIME''''s report make it appear the Pres. Hinckley is downplaying Joseph Smith's statements in the King Follett Discourse?}}
{{:Question: Why didn't Gordon B. Hinckley say more about the King Follett Discourse in the TIME Magazine interview?}}

<!-- ==Response to claim: 389, 603n45 (HB)====
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title={{check}}
|claim=Gordon B. Hinckley said: "None of you need worry because you read something that was incompletely reported. You need not worry that I do not understand some matters of doctrine. I think I understand them thoroughly."
}}
*[[Nature of God/Hinckley downplaying the King Follett Discourse|Downplaying LDS doctrine?]]
*[[../../Use of sources/Gordon B. Hinckley Understands Doctrine|Use of sources: Gordon B. Hinckley Understands Doctrine]]
|authorsources=<br>
#Gordon B. Hinckley, October 1997 General Conference Address. 
}} -->

==Response to claim: 389 - "The masking of Mormonism has continued unabated...Mormonism's smoke-screen of words has served to greatly confuse observers..."==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
*{{AuthorQuote|"The masking of Mormonism has continued unabated...Mormonism's smoke-screen of words has served to greatly confuse observers..."}}
}}
{{propaganda|This is simply propaganda on the part of the author.
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
*[[../Loaded and prejudicial language|Loaded and prejudicial language]]

==Response to claim: 391, n53 - The author claims that Latter-day Saints attempted to "infiltrate" Christian churches in order to convert entire congregations==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
The author claims that Latter-day Saints attempted to "infiltrate" Christian churches in order to convert entire congregations.
}}
{{propaganda|How, exactly, do members of the Church 'infiltrate' other denominations?  When their deception became known, would the pastor not turn away?  How do the members of the Church manage to brainwash these pastors into accepting their theology anyway?
|authorsources=<br>
#Rick Branch, "Mormon Church Infiltrates Christianity," ''Watchman Expositor'', vol. 9, no. 3, 7.
}}
*[[Jesus Christ/Latter-day Saints aren't Christians#Saints_claim_to_be_Christian_only_recently.3F|LDS only recently claim to be Christian?]]
*[[../Absurd claims]]

==Response to claim: 393-400 - Is the LDS Church really a "cult"?==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
Is the LDS Church really a "cult"?
|authorsources=<br>
#}}
{{propaganda|This is simply propaganda on the part of the author.
Various
}}
{{:Question: Is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints a "cult"?}}

==Response to claim: 400 - The author states that LDS leaders will have to "completely sever its ties with Christianity" in order not to be called a "cult" and gain "legitimacy"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
The author states that LDS leaders will have to "completely sever its ties with Christianity" in order not to be called a "cult" and gain "legitimacy."
|authorsources=<br>
#Author's opinion.
}}
{{propaganda|The idea that Latter-day Saints will ever disassociate themselves from Christ is an extremely absurd claim.
}}
*[[../Absurd claims|Absurd claims]]

{{endnotes sources}}




<!-- PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE ANYTHING BELOW THIS LINE -->