View source for Countercult ministries/Watchman Fellowship/Section 5

{{FairMormon}}  
{{H1
|L=Countercult ministries/Watchman Fellowship/Section 5
|H=Response to claims in "A Miracle for Mormons - Forgiveness of Sins"
|T=Watchman Fellowship
|A=Timothy Oliver
|<=[[../Section 4|Claims made in "Basics of Mormonism: Falling Upward"]]
|>=[[../Section 6|Claims made in "Changing the Book of Commandments"]]
}}
{{ChartWatchmanSection5}}
<onlyinclude>
{{H2
|L=Countercult ministries/Watchman Fellowship/Section 5
|H=Response to claims in "A Miracle for Mormons - Forgiveness of Sins" by Watchman Fellowship
|S=
|L1=Response to claim: Mormons counterfeit Christianity by teaching that the atonement of Christ is never enough by itself to save any person from his sin and win for him eternal life
|L2=Response to claim: Mormons teach in D&C 14:7 and elsewhere that to receive eternal life one must not sin in any way or at least permanently stop sinning
|L3=Response to claim: Mormons teach the impossible standard of “never failing to do anything He has commanded to be done” to be able to qualify for Gods’ grace
|L4=Response to claim: Mormons teach that “A Mormon, having received the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost, has no excuse for any sin
|L5=Response to claim: Mormons believe that in and of themselves, without the help of God, they “…have the means and power….to actually do whatever God commands
}}
</onlyinclude>

==Response to claim: Mormons counterfeit Christianity by teaching that the atonement of Christ is never enough by itself to save any person from his sin and win for him eternal life==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Watchman Fellowship
|claim=
Mormons counterfeit Christianity by teaching that the atonement of Christ is never enough by itself to save any person from his sin and win for him eternal life.
|authorsources=<br>
#None
}}
{{disinformation|This is false.  Only the atonement of Christ can save us from sins and win eternal life.  Members of the Church of Jesus Christ believe that they have full access to the atonement as they make and keep covenants with God.  The early Christians believed similarly.

'''''See Elder Dallin H. Oaks' response to this issue:''''' [http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=83db605ff590c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1 Have Mormons been saved?]
}}
{{:Question: Do Mormons ignore the doctrine of grace at the expense of "works"?}}

==Response to claim: Mormons teach in D&C 14:7 and elsewhere that to receive eternal life one must not sin in any way or at least permanently stop sinning==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Watchman Fellowship
|claim=
Mormons teach in D&C 14:7 and elsewhere that to receive eternal life one must not sin in any way or at least permanently stop sinning.
|authorsources=<br>
#* {{s||DC|14|7}}
}}
{{disinformation|This claim is false.  One must make and keep covenants.  As Elder Bruce R. McConkie taught, "who is striving and struggling and desiring to do what is right, though ''far from perfect in this life''; if he passes out of this life while he’s on the straight and narrow, he’s going to go on to eternal reward in his Father’s kingdom. We don’t need to get a complex or ''get a feeling that you have to be perfect'' to be saved" (emphasis added).
}}

==Response to claim: Mormons teach the impossible standard of “never failing to do anything He has commanded to be done” to be able to qualify for Gods’ grace==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Watchman Fellowship
|claim=
Mormons teach the impossible standard of “never failing to do anything He has commanded to be done” to be able to qualify for Gods’ grace.
|authorsources=<br>
#None
}}
{{disinformation|This is false, as demonstrated above.  There are ample examples in LDS scripture of sinful individuals qualifying for God's grace despite failing to do many things (e.g., {{s||Alma|36||}}).  In the Doctrine and Covenants, the Lord says:
:: ...ye are blessed, not because of your iniquity, neither your hearts of unbelief; for verily some of you are guilty before me, but I will be merciful unto your weakness. Therefore, be ye strong from henceforth; fear not, for the kingdom is yours. ({{s||DC|38|14-15}})
* Jesus always commands us to "go and sin no more," ({{b||John|8|11}}; see also {{b||John|5|14}}, {{s||DC|6|5}}, {{s||DC|24|2}} {{s||DC|29|3}}), but mercifully realizes we will need on-going repentance and faith in him.  The scriptures call this "enduring to the end."
}}
{{:Question: Do Mormon scriptures portray an "impossible gospel" in which nobody can be saved?}}

==Response to claim: Mormons teach that “A Mormon, having received the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost, has no excuse for any sin==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Watchman Fellowship
|claim=
Mormons teach that “A Mormon, having received the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost, has no excuse for any sin.”
|authorsources=<br>
#*None
}}
{{propaganda|No one has any "excuse" for sin.  This is why we need the atonement of Christ.  No one ought to sin, but everyone does sin.  Only Christ can save us.
}}

==Response to claim: Mormons believe that in and of themselves, without the help of God, they “…have the means and power….to actually do whatever God commands==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Watchman Fellowship
|claim=
Mormons believe that in and of themselves, without the help of God, they “…have the means and power….to actually do whatever God commands.”
|authorsources=<br>
#*None
}}
{{propaganda|Here again we see the critics' rather idiosyncratic brand of modern hyper-Calvinism used to attack the Saints.
The Book of Mormon clearly teaches that anything which urges or moves people to choose good and follow Christ comes ultimately from Christ ({{s||Moroni|7|12-15}}).  Likewise, anything that leads to evil comes from Satan.

Latter-day Saints do not subscribe, however, to the false idea that mankind is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_depravity completely depraved] and unable to will or do any good thing.  Men and women choose both good and evil because they are moral agents.  Christ and Satan both urge or persuade, but we ultimately make the choices, and God does not determine or predestine our will.  We choose what will influence us; we decide whether faith, hope, and grace can flow from Christ:
::Wherefore, I beseech of you, brethren, that ye should search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil; and if ye will lay hold upon every good thing, and condemn it not, ye certainly will be a child of Christ. And now, my brethren, how is it possible that ye can lay hold upon every good thing?....And Christ hath said: If ye will have faith in me ye shall have power to do whatsoever thing is expedient in me.  And he hath said: Repent all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me, and be baptized in my name, and have faith in me, that ye may be saved....And what is it that ye shall hope for?  Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise. ({{s||Moroni|7|19-41}})

One must not ignore, however, that the "spirit of Christ is given to ''every'' man" ({{s||Moroni|7|16}}).  Thus, to an extent all our judgments about good and evil derive in part from Christ's loving persuasion to all people.
}}


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