View source for Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink

{{FairMormon}} 
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|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink
|H=A FairMormon Analysis of the critical website ''MormonThink.com''
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{{Epigraph|I fantasize about a full-blown faith-destroying session. In real life, I did put the bishop in his place over polygamy. He kept saying I was wrong about Joseph having other wives and being illegal and such. I proved him wrong and he ate crow. twas fun. <br><br>&mdash;MormonThink's first managing editor, Feb. 21, 2012, 12:50PM. <ref>Comment by MormonThink's founding editor, posting as "SpongeBob SquareGarments" on the ex-Mormon message board ''Recovery from Mormonism'', Feb. 21, 2012 at 12:50PM. After FairMormon posted this quote, the original was deleted from the RFM board. The original thread in which it appeared, however, still exists here: Thread [http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,423418,423816 Anyone Fantasize About a Showdown with SP or Bishop?], ''Recovery from Mormonism'', posted Feb. 20, 2012.</ref>
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[[File:Mormonthink supporter at april 2014 general conference.jpg|thumb|400px|center|An individual displays a sign advertising MormonThink.com during "The American Atheists Mass Resignation Event" at the April 2014 General Conference]]
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{{Epigraph|My dream and hope and aspiration: Members of the 1stP and the Q12 are walked out of the [Church Office Building] or their homes in handcuffs for tax evasion, racketeering, money-laundering,...Add the gender discrimination and fraud suits that many will pile onto the criminal charges, and I think 2013-14 just might be a banner moment. Maybe I'm dreaming. But some of us are working on it.<br>&mdash;MormonThink's second managing editor, posting as "Jesus Smith" on ''Recovery from Mormonism'', December 26, 2012. <ref>Comment by MormonThink's second managing editor, David Twede (posting as "Jesus Smith"), on ''Recovery from Mormonism'', December 26, 2012.</ref> 
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{{Epigraph|It is amazing to me that we are perceived as 'angry' for speaking against the lies of the church and the way in which we are maligned by them. Yet, Jeff Holland can huff and puff, shout and scream, dribble from his mouth and pound the pulpit while he tells blatant lies, and he is considered so 'spiritual'. The mind boggles at how dumb (or brainwashed) TBMs [True Believing Mormons] can be.<br>&mdash;MormonThink's third managing editor, Tom Phillips, posting as "anointed one" on ''Recovery from Mormonism'', July 6, 2013. <ref>Comment by MormonThink's third and current managing editor (posting as "anointed one"), on ''Recovery from Mormonism'', July 6, 2013.</ref>
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{{Epigraph|Am I still an active member of the LDS Church? Yes. I no longer believe it is the one, true church. I stay in primarily to help others just discovering the truth about Mormonism. We at MT think every member has the right to know about the true origins of Mormonism.<br>&mdash;Poster "mormonthink," 'I am the webmaster of MormonThink.com AMA', posted on ex-Mormon subreddit, January 28, 2012. {{link|url=https://pay.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/ozyfg/i_am_the_webmaster_of_mormonthinkcom_ama/}} 
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{{Epigraph|The leader of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been ordered to appear before a magistrate in England on fraud charges filed by a disaffected ex-Mormon who disputes fundamental teachings of the religion....The criminal complaint was lodged by Tom Phillips, a Mormon who said he withdrew from the Church after holding positions in England as bishop, stake president and area executive secretary. He now serves as managing editor of MormonThink, an online publication that critiques the Church's history and doctrine.<br>&mdash;Dennis Wagner, [http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/02/04/mormon-president-ordered-to-court/5216645/ "Mormon president ordered to appear in British court,"] ''USA TODAY'' (4 February 2014)
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{{Epigraph|Mormons, your prophet is lame, deaf and mute.  Can he get a miracle cure?<br>&mdash;MormonThink editor David Twede, "No Miracles for the Lame, Deaf and Mute Monson," ''Mormon Disclosures'' February 7, 2014.}}
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{{Epigraph|This is an application on behalf of Mr. Monson....for the withdrawal of two summonses for fraud issued by this court on application by Mr. Phillips.....It would be relatively easy to state explicitly that Mr. Monson has made these specific representations, and when and how the misrepresentations were made. This has not been done.....It is obvious that this proposed prosecution attacks the doctrine and beliefs of the Mormon Church.... I am satisfied that the process of the court is being manipulated to provide a high-profile forum to attack the religious beliefs of others. It is an abuse of the process of the court....For the reasons given above, these summonses are withdrawn.<br>Judge Howard Riddle, Senior District Judge (Chief Magistrate) in the Westminster Magistrate's Court, Thomas Phillips vs. Thomas Monson (20 March 2014) in response to the summonses facilitated by former MormonThink Managing Editor Tom Phillips. {{link|url=http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/Resources/JCO/Documents/Judgments/thomas-phillips-v-thomas-monson.pdf}}
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{{Epigraph|Phillips is not discouraged by the ruling, according to a statement put out by David Twede, a spokesman for MormonThink.com, where Phillips is the managing editor. "Although this ruling represents a setback for our cause, we remain steadfast in our commitment to bring the LDS Corporation to justice," Phillips is quoted as saying. "For people around the world, this case has brought to light the truth: The LDS organization has committed fraud, and fraud is a serious crime."<br>"British judge tosses fraud suit against Mormon prophet," ''Salt Lake Tribune'' (20 March 2014) {{link|url=http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57706938-78/church-court-lds-case.html.csp}}
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{{ChartMormonThinkSummary}}
<onlyinclude>
{{H2
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink
|H=A FairMormon Analysis of claims made on the critical website ''MormonThink.com''
|S=The web site MormonThink.com originally claimed to be operated by active members of the Church with an interest in objectively presenting the "truth" about Mormonism. They authors have since abandoned the pretense that any of them are "active" in the Church. The founding webmaster was, by his own admission, pretending to be semi-active in order to destroy members' and missionaries' testimonies from within the social structure of the Church. The site pretends to be "balanced" by presenting information and links to apologetic sites, however, the conclusions reached by the site consistently reflect negatively on the Church's truth claims. The site also sometimes contains a large amount of Temple content.
|L1=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Translation of the Book of Mormon"
|L2=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Book of Mormon Problems"
|L3=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "The Lost 116 Pages of the Book of Mormon"
|L4=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Could Joseph Smith have written the Book of Mormon?"
|L5=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "The Witnesses"
|L6=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Moroni's Visitation"
|L7=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "The First Vision"
|L8=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "The Book of Abraham"
|L9=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "The Kinderhook Plates"
|L10=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Joseph's Translation of the Bible"
|L11=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Running with Gold Plates"
|L12=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Polygamy"
|L13=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Blacks and the Priesthood"
|L14=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "The Greek Psalter Incident"
|L15=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Conflicts with Science"
|L16=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Tithing"
|L17=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "The Temple"
|L18=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Lying for the Lord"
|L19=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Doctrine & Covenants"
}}
</onlyinclude>
==Overview==
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[[File:I.am.the.webmaster.of.mormonthink.AMA-2.jpg|right|600px]]-->

The website mormonthink.com is designed to lead Church members into questioning their beliefs in a non-threatening manner by claiming to be "objective" and "balanced." For years that site claimed to be run by active members of the Church. In reality, however, they were "active" only in the sense that some of them still occasionally attended Church&mdash;they did ''not'' accept the Church's truth claims, and they had no interest in strengthening belief. Instead, the site portrays Church leaders as liars, Joseph Smith as a fraud and con-man, and the Church as "an oppressive empire building corporation." The site includes links to FairMormon as a way of demonstrating their claimed "balance." 

Each page on MormonThink.com typically includes quotes from Church sources, large amounts of block text copied from websites critical of the Church, a few references to LDS apologetics that are followed by mocking refutations by critics, and and ending summary which generally agrees with the critics. The bottom of each page contains links to critical sites, believers' sites and to some sites which they consider neutral.

{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Translation of the Book of Mormon}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Book of Mormon Problems}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/The Lost 116 Pages of the Book of Mormon}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Could Joseph Smith have written the Book of Mormon}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/The Witnesses}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Moroni's Visitation }}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/The First Vision}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/The Book of Abraham}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/The Kinderhook Plates}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Joseph's Translation of the Bible}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Joseph Running with the Plates}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Polygamy}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Blacks and the Priesthood}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/The Greek Psalter Incident}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Conflicts with Science}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Tithing}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/The Temple}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Lying for the Lord}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Doctrine & Covenants}}

===<span style="color:green">The "Spin Free" Section</span>===
The following articles extract all of the primary and secondary source quotes from the critical site, places them within their original context when possible, and provides links to the original sources online. This allows you to read the critics' articles free of critical or apologetic "spin." You read the quotes and decide for yourself what to think, without any help from FairMormon or from the critics at MormonThink. If you want to check the sources, we make it easy to go back and look at the originals whenever possible. We won't tell you what to think, and neither will the critics.

{{SummaryItemSourceQuoteMormonThink
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Translation of the Book of Mormon/Source quotes without commentary
|page=Translation of the Book of Mormon
}}
{{SummaryItemSourceQuoteMormonThink
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Could Joseph Smith have written the Book of Mormon/Source quotes without commentary
|page=Could Joseph Smith have written the Book of Mormon
}}
{{SummaryItemSourceQuoteMormonThink
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/The Lost 116 Pages of the Book of Mormon/Source quotes without commentary
|page=The Lost 116 Pages of the Book of Mormon
}}
{{SummaryItemSourceQuoteMormonThink
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/The Witnesses/Source quotes without commentary
|page=The Witnesses
}}
{{SummaryItemSourceQuoteMormonThink
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/The First Vision/Source quotes without commentary
|page=The First Vision
}}
{{SummaryItemSourceQuoteMormonThink
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/The Kinderhook Plates/Source quotes without commentary
|page=The Kinderhook Plates
}}
{{SummaryItemSourceQuoteMormonThink
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Conflicts with Science/Source quotes without commentary
|page=Conflicts with Science
}}
{{SummaryItemSourceQuoteMormonThink
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Joseph Running with the Plates/Source quotes without commentary
|page=Joseph Running with the Plates
}}

{{SummaryItem
|link=Book of Mormon/Plagiarism accusations/Comoros Islands and Moroni/Captain Kidd
|subject=A FairMormon Analysis of MormonThink page "Joseph Smith, Captain Kidd, Cumorah And Moroni"
|summary=Grant Palmer published a paper called "Joseph Smith, Captain Kidd, Cumorah And Moroni" in the ''John Whitmer Historical Association Journal'' in 2014. Palmer asserts that Joseph Smith acquired the names "Cumorah" and "Moroni" by reading stories of Captain Kidd in his youth. Palmer concludes that it is "reasonable to assert that Joseph Smith's hill in the "land of Camorah" [Comorah/Cumorah], "city of Moroni," and "land of Moroni" <ref>Grant Palmer, John Whitmer Historical Association vol. 34 no. 1 Spring/Summer 2014</ref> We respond to these claims in this article.
}}
{{SummaryItem
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Kirtland Temple Dedication
|subject=A FairMormon Analysis of MormonThink page "Kirtland Temple Dedication"
|summary=({{antilink|http://mormonthink.com/glossary/kirtlandtemplededication.htm}})Regarding the heavenly manifestations that accompanied the Kirtland Temple dedication, Mormonthink concludes that "It's likely that Joseph said he was seeing something angelic and told the congregation what he claimed to be seeing. Those in attendance relayed what Joseph said he saw. Everyone was so excited for this grand event, that they likely got caught up in the moment and imagined some extraordinary things."
|L1=Response to claim: "Some who were genuinely drunk probably added fuel to the environment by claiming to see things just to support their beloved prophet"
|L2=Response to claim: "Both Elias and Elijah also are reported to have appeared as two separate beings in the Kirtland temple....However, Elias and Elijah are the same person"
}}
{{SummaryItem
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Overview
|subject=Overview of the MormonThink website
|summary=The web site MormonThink.com claims to be operated by active members of the Church with an interest in objectively presenting the "truth" about Mormonism. In general, the conclusions reached by the site reflect negatively on the Church. The best explanation of the purpose of the website is offered the words of its own webmaster, and by the testimonials of ex-Mormons who claim that the site caused them to lose belief and leave the Church. 
}}
{{SummaryItem
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/25 items that would allegedly "make the Church true"
|subject=Response to MormonThink's list of 25 items that would allegedly "make the Church true"
|summary=({{antilink|http://www.mormonthink.com/endpage.htm}}) According to MormonThink.com, if the Church actually contained God's truth and authority, "we would expect the following things to have happened in this way." The following is a list of issues presented by the website followed by FairMormon's response. Most items on the list are standard anti-Mormon fare, issues FairMormon believes have been "asked and answered" many times. Nearly all points appeal to some type of intellectual or religious fundamentalism.
}}

{{FairMormonBlogBar
|title=A Yankee Lawyer’s Guide to the “Mormon Apocalypse”
|link=https://www.fairmormon.org/blog/2014/02/17/a-yankee-lawyers-guide-to-the-mormon-apocalypse
|author=SteveDensleyJr
|date=February 17, 2014
|summary=A British man named Tom Philips has filed a fraud action in England against President Thomas Monson and is claiming that it will bring on the “Mormon Apocalypse.” However, rather than inciting fear and panic among the faithful, if they know about the case at all, the most common response is one of bewilderment among Mormons and non-Mormons alike. That is due partly to the fact that it seems quite odd that someone would pursue a case for fraud that is based on faith claims and personal opinions. But, at least for Americans, the odd nature by which the claim has arisen procedurally is equally puzzling.
<br>
As an American civil defense lawyer, I think I have been as befuddled by this case as anyone. So I’ve consulted British lawyers and legal sources and come up with the following guide to what Phillips has called, the “Mormon Apocalypse.”
}}

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[[es:La crítica del Mormonismo/Sitios web/PiensaMormón]]