View source for Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Chapter 5

{{FairMormon}} 
{{H1
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Chapter 5
|H1=Response to claims made in "Chapter 5: People of Zion"
|S=
|L1=
|T=[[../../|One Nation Under Gods]]
|A=Richard Abanes
|<=[[../Chapter 4|Claims made in "Chapter 4: Smith's Golden Book"]]
|>=[[../Chapter 6|Claims made in "Chapter 6: No rest for the Righteous"]]
}}
{{ChartOneNationUnderGodsChapter5}}
==Quick Navigation==
*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Chapter 5#Response to claim: 83, 517n2 (HB) - The book states that the "Mormon church" was formally organized in New York|Response to claim: 83, 517n2 (HB) - The book states that the "Mormon church" was formally organized in New York]]
*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Chapter 5#Response to claim: 517n2 (HB) - The official name of the Church's changed from The Church of Christ to The Church of the Latter Day Saints and then to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints|Response to claim: 517n2 (HB) - The official name of the Church's changed from The Church of Christ to The Church of the Latter Day Saints and then to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]]
*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Chapter 5#Response to claim: 86, n22-23 (HB) - Did "anti-Christendom" become a "defining feature of Mormonism?"|Response to claim: 86, n22-23 (HB) - Did "anti-Christendom" become a "defining feature of Mormonism?"]]
*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Chapter 5#Response to claim: 86, n24-25 - Does the Church teach that "Satan sits in the place of God in Christianity"?|Response to claim: 86, n24-25 - Does the Church teach that "Satan sits in the place of God in Christianity"?]]
*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Chapter 5#Response to claim: 87, 517n26 - "Smith's long association with occultism also helped draw spiritual 'seekers' into Mormonism"|Response to claim: 87, 517n26 - "Smith's long association with occultism also helped draw spiritual 'seekers' into Mormonism"]]
*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Chapter 5#Response to claim: 89, 518n47 - A revelation changed to conceal Oliver Cowdery's use of a divining rod|Response to claim: 89, 518n47 - A revelation changed to conceal Oliver Cowdery's use of a divining rod]]
*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Chapter 5#Response to claim: 89, 518n49 - Did Joseph give Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball divining rods "as a symbol of gratitude for their loyalty"?|Response to claim: 89, 518n49 - Did Joseph give Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball divining rods "as a symbol of gratitude for their loyalty"?]]
*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Chapter 5#Response to claim: 89 - Did Joseph's family own a "magic dagger"?|Response to claim: 89 - Did Joseph's family own a "magic dagger"?]]
*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Chapter 5#Response to claim: 89-90, 519n53-57 - Did Joseph's family own "three homemade magical parchments"?|Response to claim: 89-90, 519n53-57 - Did Joseph's family own "three homemade magical parchments"?]]
*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Chapter 5#Response to claim: 89 - Did Joseph have a "Jupiter talisman" with him the day he died?|Response to claim: 89 - Did Joseph have a "Jupiter talisman" with him the day he died?]]
*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Chapter 5#Response to claim: 519n58 (PB) - The author states: In 1998, Apostle David B. Haight "reinvoked the astrological principle that people should 'do nothing without the assistance of the moon'"|Response to claim: 519n58 (PB) - The author states: In 1998, Apostle David B. Haight "reinvoked the astrological principle that people should 'do nothing without the assistance of the moon'"]]
*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Chapter 5#Response to claim: 92 - There is "no question" that Mormonism began as a "doomsday sect led by an end-time prophet"|Response to claim: 92 - There is "no question" that Mormonism began as a "doomsday sect led by an end-time prophet"]]
*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Chapter 5#Response to claim: 95, 522n74 (HB) - Did Martin Harris claim that "all temporal and spiritual power would be given over to The Prophet Joseph Smith"?|Response to claim: 95, 522n74 (HB) - Did Martin Harris claim that "all temporal and spiritual power would be given over to The Prophet Joseph Smith"?]]
*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Chapter 5#Response to claim: 99, 521n97 - Joseph claimed that his revision of the Bible..."re-inserted a great deal of material that supposedly had been excised from it by corrupt and evil men"|Response to claim: 99, 521n97 - Joseph claimed that his revision of the Bible..."re-inserted a great deal of material that supposedly had been excised from it by corrupt and evil men"]]
*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Chapter 5#Response to claim: 99, n100 - "Mormon high priests possessed the authority to bestow salvation"|Response to claim: 99, n100 - "Mormon high priests possessed the authority to bestow salvation"]]
{{parabreak}}

==Response to claim: 83, 517n2 (HB) - The book states that the "Mormon church" was formally organized in New York==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
The book states that the "Mormon church" was formally organized in New York.
|authorsources=
N/A
}}
{{misinformation|There is no church called the "Mormon Church." "The Church of Christ" was formally organized in New York by Joseph Smith. The author appears to want to avoid mentioning the name of Christ in association with Mormonism.
}}
{{:Question: What names did the Church go by prior to the revelation which established the correct one?}}

==Response to claim: 517n2 (HB) - The official name of the Church's changed from The Church of Christ to The Church of the Latter Day Saints and then to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
The official name of the Church's changed from The Church of Christ to The Church of the Latter Day Saints and then to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
|authorsources=
No source provided. (Marquardt source refers to the location of the church organization)
}}
{{information|The Church went by a variety of names until the current name was given by revelation.
}}
{{:Question: How many times was the name of the Church changed through revelation?}}
{{:Question: What names did the Church go by prior to the revelation which established the correct one?}}
{{:Question: What is the history of name changes of the Church?}}

==Response to claim: 86, n22-23 (HB) - Did "anti-Christendom" become a "defining feature of Mormonism?"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
*Did "anti-Christendom" become a "defining feature of Mormonism?" 
*Did the Church denounce Christianity as "satanic?"
|authorsources=<br>
*{{JDfairwiki|author=Brigham Young|disc=17|vol=5|start=73}}. 
*{{JDfairwiki|author=Brigham Young|disc=37|vol=5|start=229}}.
*{{JDfairwiki|author=Brigham Young|disc=44|vol=8|start=171}}.
*{{JDfairwiki|author=Brigham Young|disc=50|vol=8|start=199}}.
*{{JDfairwiki|author=John Taylor|disc=3|vol=6|start=25}}.
*{{JDfairwiki|author=John Taylor|disc=25|vol=6|start=167}}.
*{{JDfairwiki|author=John Taylor|disc=25|vol=13|start=225}}.
}}
{{propaganda|"Anti-Christendom" was not a "defining feature of Mormonism." Much of the persecution suffered by Latter-day Saints in the early days of the Church was at the hands of people who called themselves "Christians."
}}
*[[../Use of sources/Christianity is satanic]]
*{{CrossRef:Abanes:Becoming Gods|pages=255}}
{{:Question: Did early Mormon leaders consider themselves Christians?}}
{{:Question: Did LDS leaders claim that Christians were no longer present on the earth after the apostasy?}}
{{:Question: Did Latter-day Saints wish to avoid being classified as Christians?}}
{{:Question: What did early Mormon leaders think of Christians?}}
{{:Question: Did Mormons only recently claim to be Christian?}}

==Response to claim: 86, n24-25 - Does the Church teach that "Satan sits in the place of God in Christianity"?==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=<br>
*Does the Church continue to teach that "all Christian churches are corrupt"?
*Does the Church teach that "Satan sits in the place of God in Christianity"?
|authorsources=
*Bruce R. McConkie, ''Mormon Doctrine'' (1958; second edition, 1966), p. 132.
*Kent P. Jackson, [http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=401605481ae6b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1 "Early Signs of the Apostasy,"] ''Ensign'', December 1984, 9.
}}
{{propaganda|The Church does not teach that "Satan sits in the place of God in Christianity."
}}
{{:Question: Do Latter-day Saints believe that the scriptural terms "church of the devil," the "great and abominable church," and the "whore of all the earth" refer to a specific religion?}}

==Response to claim: 87, 517n26 - "Smith's long association with occultism also helped draw spiritual 'seekers' into Mormonism"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
{{AuthorQuote|"Smith's long association with occultism also helped draw spiritual 'seekers' into Mormonism because his affinity for the paranormal enabled other occultists to easily identify with him."}}
|authorsources=
{{CriticalWork:Quinn:Magic World View|pages=xxiii}}
}}
{{propaganda|The author is simply repeating D. Michael Quinn's opinion.
}}
*[[../Loaded and prejudicial language|Loaded and prejudicial language]]
<!-- ====87, 520n31 (HB) 518n31 (PB)====
{{IndexClaim
|claim=
*The book claims that "many" of the early members of the Church used seer stones. Among these are mentioned "Jacob and David Whitmer, Hiram Page, Philo Dibble, W.W. Phelps, Lucy Mack Smith, and Elizabeth Ann Whitney."
|response=
* {{nw}}
|authorsources=
*{{CriticalWork:Quinn:Magic World View|pages=247-258}}
*Ogden Kraut, ''Seers and Seer Stones'', 55.
*Samantha Payne, Affidavit, June 29, 1881, Ontario County Clerk's Office, Canandaigua, New york, published in ''Ontario County Times'', July 27, 1881, 3, photocopy in fd 31, box 149, Marquardt papers, Marriott Library.
}} -->
<!-- ====88, 520n35 (HB) 518n35 (PB)====
{{IndexClaim
|claim=
*Were seer stones used by Latter-day Saints "well into the late 1800s" because Joseph didn't "condemn them?" The book then supports this claim by stating the Joseph "did the very opposite" by showing one of his seer stones to the Quorum of the Twelve on Dec. 27, 1841.
|response=
* {{nw}}
|authorsources=
*Kraut, 62.
*{{CriticalWork:Quinn:Magic World View|pages=250}}
}} -->
==Response to claim: 89, 518n47 - A revelation was changed to conceal Oliver Cowdery's use of a divining rod==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
A revelation was changed to conceal Oliver Cowdery's use of a divining rod.
|authorsources=
''Book of Commandments'' (VII:3), 19.
}}
{{misinformation|The original changes to the revelation, as shown in the Joseph Smith Papers, demonstrates that the original changes to the revelation actually ''emphasized'' that Oliver used a divining rod.
}}
*{{CrossRef:Abanes:Becoming Gods|pages=46}}
{{:Source:Revelations in Context on history.lds.org:Oliver Cowdery's Gift:Cowdery was among those who believed in and used a divining rod}}
{{:Question: Did Joseph Smith attempt to "cover up" Oliver Cowdery's work with a divining rod by changing this revelation?}}
{{:Question: How was the wording of the "rod of nature" revelation that became Doctrine and Coveants 8:6–8 altered over time?}}

==Response to claim: 89, 518n49 - Did Joseph give Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball divining rods "as a symbol of gratitude for their loyalty"?==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
Did Joseph give Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball divining rods "as a symbol of gratitude for their loyalty"?
|authorsources=<br>
*Stanley B. Kimball, ''Heber C. Kimball: Mormon Patriarch and Pioneer'', 248-249.
*Anthon H. Lund, ''Anthon H. Lund Journal'', under July 5, 1901 quoted in D. Michael Quinn, ''BYU Studies'', Fall 1978, vol. 18, 82, cited in {{CriticalWork:Tanner:Changing World|pages=87}}.
}}
{{misinformation|This is a misrepresentation of the source.
}}
* [[../Use of sources/Divining rods to Kimball and Young|Use of sources: Divining rods to Kimball and Young]]
{{:Question: Did Joseph Smith give Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball divining rods "as a symbol of gratitude for their loyalty"?}}

==Response to claim: 89 - Did Joseph's family own a "magic dagger"?==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
Did Joseph's family own a "magic dagger"?
|authorsources=
No source given. 
}}
{{propaganda|Everyone in the nineteenth-century frontier had at least one dagger, and this one was not designed for ceremonial magic or treasure hunting.
}}
*Note: In [[Becoming Gods|''Becoming Gods'']], the author calls this a "magick dagger."
*{{CrossRef:Abanes:Becoming Gods|pages=37, 344n93}}
*{{FR-12-2-16}}
{{:Question: Was a "magic dagger" once owned by Hyrum Smith?}}

==Response to claim: 89-90, 519n53-57 - Did Joseph's family own "three homemade magical parchments"?==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
Did Joseph's family own "three homemade magical parchments"? 
|authorsources=<br>
*{{CriticalWork:Quinn:Magic World View|pages=104-115}}
*Note: the main text (paperback edition) has the citations in the following order: 56, 57, 54, 55, 53.
}}
{{propaganda|There is no evidence that Joseph knew of, possessed, or used magical parchments.
}}
*Note: In [[Becoming Gods|''Becoming Gods'']], the author calls these "magick parchments."
*The text mentions the ""Holiness to the Lord,"" the ""Saint Peter Bind Them,"" and the ""Jehovah, Jehovah, Jehovah"" parchments without showing how they are related to the Smith family.
*{{CrossRef:Abanes:Becoming Gods|chapter=5|pages=37, 344n94}}
{{:Question: Did Joseph Smith's family own "magic parchments" which suggest their involvement in the "occult"?}}
{{:Question: What is the probability that Joseph Smith possessed items related to "magic"?}}

==Response to claim: 89 - Did Joseph have a "Jupiter talisman" with him the day he died?==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
Did Joseph have a "Jupiter talisman" with him the day he died?
|authorsources=
No source given. 
}}
{{misinformation|There is no contemporary evidence that the talisman was on Joseph when he died.
}}
{{CrossRef:Abanes:Becoming Gods|pages=37, 344n95}}
{{:Question: Did Joseph Smith have a Jupiter talisman on his person at the time of his death?}}
{{:Question: What is the source of the story about Joseph Smith possessing a Jupiter talisman?}}
{{:Question: Could the list of items on Joseph's person at the time of his death have been incomplete?}}
{{:Source:Stephen Robinson:BYUS 27:4:1987:In the case of the Jupiter coin, this same extrapolation error is compounded with a very uncritical acceptance of the artifact in the first place}}

==Response to claim: 519n58 (PB) - The author states: In 1998, Apostle David B. Haight "reinvoked the astrological principle that people should 'do nothing without the assistance of the moon'"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
The author states: [I]n 1998, Apostle David B. Haight "reinvoked the astrological principle that people should 'do nothing without the assistance of the moon'" (Quinn, ''Early Mormonism'', 291).
|authorsources=
*{{CriticalWork:Quinn:Magic World View|pages= 291}}
}}
{{disinformation|The phrase is not in the published talk or the live recording of the talk.
}}
{{:Question: Did Elder David B. Haight make an astrological reference that people should 'do nothing without the assistance of the moon'?}}

==Response to claim: 92 - There is "no question" that Mormonism began as a "doomsday sect led by an end-time prophet"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
{{AuthorQuote|"There is no question that [Mormonism] began as a doomsday sect led by an end-time prophet."}}
|authorsources=
Author's opinion.
}}
{{propaganda|This is simply hype by the author. There is no evidence to support this assertion. Mormonism has never been a "doomsday sect".
}}
*[[../Loaded and prejudicial language|Loaded and prejudicial language]]

==Response to claim: 95, 522n74 (HB) - Did Martin Harris claim that "all temporal and spiritual power would be given over to The Prophet Joseph Smith"?==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
Did Martin Harris claim that "all temporal and spiritual power would be given over to The Prophet Joseph Smith"?
|authorsources=
Chandler, reprinted in {{EarlyMormonDocs|vol=3|start=222|end=223}}
}}
{{propaganda|This may have been Martin's opinion at some point, but it was never a teaching or doctrine of the Church.
}}
{{:Question: Did Martin Harris state that there would never be another president of the United States elected?}}

==Response to claim: 99, 521n97 - Joseph claimed that his revision of the Bible..."re-inserted a great deal of material that supposedly had been excised from it by corrupt and evil men"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
The author states that Joseph claimed that his revision of the Bible "not only deleted mistakes in the Bible's first book, but also re-inserted a great deal of material that supposedly had been excised from it by corrupt and evil men."
|authorsources=
No reference is provided for the claim that Joseph said that information he was adding was originally removed by "corrupt and evil men."
}}
{{misinformation|The endnote does not provide a reference for this claim&mdash;it simply states that the text is now included in the ''Pearl of Great Price'' as the ''Book of Moses''.
}}

==Response to claim: 99, n100 - "Mormon high priests possessed the authority to bestow salvation"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
{{AuthorQuote|"Mormon high priests possessed the authority to bestow salvation. Such authority had always been viewed by Christians as belonging to God alone."}}
|authorsources=
Joseph Smith, ''Far West Record'', October 25, 1831. Quoted in Lauritz G. Peterson, "The Kirtland Temple," ''BYU Studies'' (Summer 1972), vol 12, 401; cf. Brooke, 193-194.
}}
{{disinformation|This is a false claim. Latter-day Saints have always believed that salvation can only be obtained through Jesus Christ.
}}
{{:Question: How do Latter-day Saints understand the significance of the blood shed by Christ?}}

{{endnotes sources}}



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